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|Result: A template to notify viewers about vulgar language will not be made at this time.|
| :User:SplashTheHedgehog/Rouge Talkbubble
The language on the pages in question aren't exactly what I would call vulgar. Considering you need to be 13 to legally use wikia, it's rather useless as by that age you should be used to the sort of mild language featured on these pages. So I oppose.01:48, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
Per Free. 01:50, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
It is true that you need to be at least 13 to sign up to wikia, but you do not need to be 13 to visit the website, and as Sonic the Hedgehog is a series aimed at children, children probably visit the site. This is the main reason why we enforce the no swearing rule more so than other wikis. As for the subject at hand, I have often wondered about bringing up the subject of a explicit content banner and whether or not we have any obligation to warn reader about our content here. I'm in favour of creating such a banner. Myself 123 02:19, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
We really don't need a specific template for minimum of 5 pages, and Sonic games dont really have any vulgar language. It's useless. --You want it with duck or without? 05:53, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
We do have pages like Sonic X and Sonic to the Rescue which contain uncensored vulgar language (Sonic says s*** in the Japanese version of the episode). I'd rather not censor it for accuracy purposes, but it's true that children under 10, for example could be reading this website, and this is a wiki for a franchise aimed at everyone. I often wish people would think of them once in a while. 11:10, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
A good point was brought up by Myself (these jokes are getting old). I would prefer to censor the information, be less specific about cursing (example), or remove the information completely (like we should with "pingas", because the info is pointless anyway). I don't think putting up a banner template would be the best thing to do (seriously, that might even encourage a few kids); instead, a short, bold-texted notice above the section with swearing would be preferable...that is, if none of the three options I mentioned above can be applied to the situation (example: His World's language probably shouldn't be removed or censored due to accuracy purposes). 13:31, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
Honestly, nothing should be censored as it would lead to inaccuracy. I see your point about the banner encouraging children to seek out these pages. If anything, it's just a warning, like it's use saying "it's there, don't be suprised when you see it", that way, the reader is prepared when it comes up. Myself 123 16:00, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
Wait, younger kids like the ages of five could go on the wiki and read the His World article, which has bad words. I'm not for this, nor am I against it, but I'm neutral on this. Just wanted to point that out. BlueSpeeder (talk) 22:03, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
I oppose. Per FreeSmudger. ---03:04, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
The banner looks good so far. I don't have any ideas for design alterations, the warning may need to be changed to something a bit more formal, like "This article contains language which may not be suitable for younger readers. If you are offended by such language, do not read further."20:33, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Not bad. I'll go to the sandbox and see if I can fix up the banner's colors. Other users are free to chip in with their own ideas.20:46, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
I have seen many templates being bland and lifeless at this wiki in my opinion, but now this is really good looking one with frame edges and proper basis. Keep going! - MarioSonic (talk) 21:11, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
I may be a bit late to add my opinion here, but I'm in favor of adding the banner as long as it isn't used as a bypass to the "No Swearing" rule we already have. I just don't want to see people using this banner on their pages which contain vulgar language (I.E. the stuff that is already banned) to protect themselves in the event they get in trouble. I don't see the "Well I warned you guys about the language so I shouldn't be in trouble" clause being a prevalent issue, but it's something that needs to be considered.
I don't think a banner is necessary. In fact, I think it's a bad idea. The people you want to "protect" from expletives are not going to be deterred by a banner, especially one as big and loud and attention-grabbing as the one you've designed. You're just highlighting the swearing so that people will be able to find it easier. -- Supermorff (talk) 22:31, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Per Morff. Hence why I said that even if we make a notice, it shouldn't be a loud, attention-grabbing banner, but a short italicized statement that you would notice if you were to actually read the section or page completely from start to finish.00:09, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Here is a smaller warning template we can use for each section (it is based off Template:Spoiler):
and a end note:
The warning Silver made is much better...almost exactly what I wanted.14:42, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
I love the new style and I now am in support of this addition so long as this template is used. ---20:27, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
I had another idea. We could make an in-line template that hides the text unless highlighted. For example:
Really? I didn't think that would be permissible; I haven't seen that method put in place on any other wiki. It's far better than the warning banners we had before; the text-hiding thing is a much more subtle way of letting people know there's disagreeable words on the page. I'll forget the other suggestions if there are no more advantages to them.22:02, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to have to agree... Cause you don't know who's surfing the web these days. Who knows some little kid barges in and reads some article and finds all that language. So I agree. -- MintsyWinterBlue (talk) (contributions) 23:36, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Morff's suggestion is creative and much more preferable than the other attempts. Per Solace.13:43, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
Censorship is s**t. ...heheh yeah?... yeah?... see what I did there? I'm good. That was hilarious. Genius joke. I shmoppose.
What am I doing on SNN right now? Sorta just decided to annoy everyone for 5 minutes for the first time in like a year.
Been lurking for the last few days, but I thought I should post in this.
I personally think all of this is an overreaction. "Damn", "pissed", and.... yeah. Those are literally the only words I recall ever being used that could possibly be referred to as vulgar in any Sonic game. And everyone, let's be honest: those words are used every single day by people old and young alike, and even words much worse. Little kids play M-rated games like Halo and Call of Duty, which involves words that WOULD require some warning. But the fact is, nowadays the boundaries on inappropriate language is much looser than it was before. Yes, Sonic is one of the more kid-friendly franchises out there. Yes, Shadow the Hedgehog was not the most kid-friendly game released for the franchise. But in all honesty like Morff, I don't think any censoring is needed. Little kids are scrolling the internet, some much younger than 13. That's very true. However, it's the responsibility of the parents to monitor what little kids look at on the internet, not ours. Words people our respective ages use every day, or at least as a substitute for words even worse, shouldn't need to be such a big concern in respects to kids who shouldn't even be here in the first place.
Long story short, there's a line where the content is our responsibility, and the viewership is the parents' responsibility. I don't see why we should worry going to such excessive measures over words that nowadays are so completely minor as to be irrelevant. Now if we were talking about words like "s***", "b******", and the like it might be a different matter. But Shadow the Hedgehog was rated "T", not "M". And as I said before, lots of kids even younger than 13 are playing M-Rated games. Do you REALLY think they'll be phased by words like "damn" or "pissed"? And I have to ask: Did Shadow the Hedgehog even use ANY words that could be remotely considered vulgar besides those two? Because if not, then I'm sorry but this whole forum is just silly, going to such measure over TWO WORDS used in ONE game..--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round 09:08, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
In the case of Japanese language, that we chalk up to a difference in values. Or 4Kids taking a show meant for teens and making it into something for kids. Again. But beyond that point, we are an encyclopaedia. I've always said that the community should come first, and I still believe that. However, that shouldn't come at the cost of neutral a neutral viewpoint and accurate content.
The fact that Sonic and others swore in the original Japanese anime is notable, but not in itself. In most anime swearing is commonplace. What makes it notable is that it's one of the many differences between the 4Kids dub and the original uncut anime. The same thing goes for Shadow the Hedgehog; the more liberal language and the very different gameplay are what make it so notable.
You know what most wikis with language such as "s***" do? Nothing. They put it there for it to be read by anyone who comes across the site. Why? Because it's their job to be accurate and neutral, regardless of what it may teach children. And Solace kids of all ages aren't supposed to be on here; this is supposed to be for ages 13 and up. Hell, I didn't even discover it until I was like... 14. So if little kids are learning how to browse the internet and find sites like this, then yes it is the fault of the parents for whatever said kids find. Us? We're a wiki. Our job is to be neutral, and to be accurate. If that means some vulgar language needs to be shown, then that's just how the cookie crumbles. Trust me, the whole language thing is not a big deal. Or need I remind you that kids as young as five play Halo and Call of Duty?--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round 17:22, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
As I have said before, to me adding a warning or whatever would be to inform anyone who may not want to see such a thing. Kagi you're right that we have no responsibilty to censor or warn, I just thought it wouldn't be out of line to give a "heads up" as it were. I should also also point out that "kids as young as five play Halo and Call of Duty" is a generalisation which I don't think has a point here. Myself 123 19:38, April 8, 2013 (UTC) User:SplashTheHedgehog/Amy Talkbubble
Before I completely ignore this wiki again for the next year or so, I would like to say that "pissed" is not a curse word. It's just sort of a more aggressive term used for "pee". Just thought I'd say that. --Rainbowroad6w, the researcher. (Talk)
Out of curiosity, how many people here are, themselves, personally offended by strong language? As opposed to trying to prevent other people from taking offence? -- Supermorff (talk) 13:43, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
I do too a bit even though I use it a bit off the wiki but that might just because I have a high temper02:24, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
Everyone should look at two things when considering this topic.One,the average attention span of anyone under 13 is like someone on crack with a bad case of ADD so the mass of text on any wiki will be to much for them to read or scroll through.And second the few "vulgar" words and phrases in the Sonic Universe are as follows, Dammit,Damn not here,Damn you,what the hell,your going straight to hell,and two others in Shadow the Hedgehog, His World "kicking ass fast, putting on a show",and as for the Japenese version of Sonic X,I'm 99.9% certain no american kid will even know to look for it or even know that it exists,and these few instances are alot tamer than other "mainstream" games like CoD and Halo among other newer releases in the past 3-4 years.And to those who think this wiki should be a beacon of "light" or "hope" for the kiddies eff that,the internet is a dark,cruel,unforgiving,hell hole that everyone who wishes to use it for more than research or watch cat videos needs to realize early on so that they are prepared when they see "vulgarity",or other "offensive" things so that these kinds of discussion are never a thing.To sum it all up,I'm firmly against any kind of warning system,if there are a few kiddies who come here and see something they shouldn't have,that lies on the parents shoulders not ours or anyone else's on the internet.ChuckfinleLP (talk) 10:01, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
I have an idea! Why not use some of Wikia's new tabbing features? Have "Censored" and "Uncensored/Original" tabs! Everyone's happy! It's the closest thing to a spoiler tab on most forums that Wikia has, and I think it should be used. Place tabbers on the sections in question, and copy the original section into the Original tab, and then in the Censored tab, place the same content, only censored where necessary. I'll try and show an example later. A template could also be provided at the top informing users of this. I do like wikis I can let my younger, innocent siblings get on (unregistered and not editing of course, just viewing info). Just to be clear, both tabs would contain exactly the same content, except one would have the necessary parts censored and the other wouldn't. (And except my apologies for having such a comparatively drab signature) -- Talk Page ♪♫The ones with answers always get their way...♪♫ 05:41, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to throw in my two cents here. When StarWars.com still had a forum, there was a swearing filter. The forum was considered "family-friendly," and thus the only swear words allowed on there were the ones that were featured in the films. Those words were "hell" and "damn." I also recall a Rugrats episode where "hell" was used ("there will be hell to pay," from the episode where Spike went missing). Take from that what you will. Trak Nar Ramble on 09:35, April 15, 2013 (UTC)</sup>
Well as I said above it isn't our job to play parent to any kid that may read something "vulgar" on the internet.You should be the one to teach your younger siblings where to go and where not to go.But I'll help you,tell them not to go to the Shadow the Hedgehog page or the Japanese Sonic X page,and that's about it for Sonic.I mean come on it's made for a younger audience there is nothing "vulgar" enough to waste time with censorship templates or filters.As Trak Nar said Star Wars is considered family-friendly and they use the exact same swear words as Shadow the Hedgehog.But why is this forum still open? I thought it was supposed to be closed by now.ChuckfinleLP (talk) 12:29, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
Well I understand your concerns but as I said above a very large group of English kids will never know about the Japanese version or even acknowledge it's existence until there old enough to not give a crap.And your argument about the parent sitting by the kid and seeing the template is not what we should do,because the parent should look ahead of time or pre-screen what there children search for on the internet and have "safe zones" for there kids.Your idea would take that element out and force us to look out for the well being of the kid which is something we should never do.ChuckfinleLP (talk) 00:10, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Well that's just it,no one blames a parent for making sure what there child does is safe, they praise that stuff and give parents grief who would just say go right ahead and go to X website or puts a video game controller in there hands and says have at it or lets them watch TV,you hear about it all the time.ChuckfinleLP (talk) 00:30, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Y'know what? This is going nowhere, so let's just wait until there's no one left who wants to vote and then close this godforsaken forum for good. I knew things would end up this way.00:36, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
@Myself I'm sorry I guess I assumed "mollycoddling" was a term for being overprotective,I've never heard of the word before so my bad.@Solace well can't an admin delete it any time they want? And if not just have a vote whether to close it or not.ChuckfinleLP (talk) 00:45, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Please explain to me why everyone is opposing. And no bandwagon fallacies. But one more comment...two users expressed their opinions in this forum that SNN should be a kid-friendly site, and one of them is opposing. Vulgar content is not kid-friendly, and by including it or neglecting to put in a warning, you are discriminating against our younger viewers. A nasty encounter on the trivia section could even cause a few parents to discourage their kids from visiting Wikia, and that would narrow down our audience, which should be for people of all ages. Shadowunleashed13 (talk) 00:57, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
@Myself Again I apologize,I re-read your post and I diffidently missed your meaning,I had alot on my mind at the time and wasn't paying attention.And being overprotective isn't a bad thing per-se,the problem is not alot of parents are and when they find something "vulgar" they either flip out and berate the owner of the company or site and then play parent or they just don't care.And most parents now a days are somewhere in the middle but lean more towards the latter scenario. @Shadow Here's an example why we shouldn't care about censorship. Alot of popular Youtube channels don't censor themselves (examples) Rooster Teeth,The Game Station,Smosh,Ray William Johnson,among others and alot of there demographic is kids aged 8-13 and and most of the time younger, and you don't see parents beating down the gates to Google's main office or Youtubes main office calling for mass censorship.And channels like Rooster Teeth and The Game Station say alot of very "vulgar" words and Smosh shows naked,blurred women alot and all that is ten times worse than the little bit of crap that everyone is crying about on here,and yet armed with this knowledge there is no cries of outrage from parents to make them stop.So why should we care if society doesn't care? And don't give me some BS line like "our site should be a shining place of "good" for children".That's not our job,our job is to provide information about the Sonic Universe,not play babysitter.ChuckfinleLP (talk) 02:32, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Again, what about the use of tabbers? (See my above post). Any thoughts on my idea of using those? If someone said no I guess I missed it. -- Talk Page ♪♫The ones with answers always get their way...♪♫ 03:12, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
That's a good idea Doomslicer, but any approaches to success in the censorship field is out of the question. It's far too late too introduce new ideas, because people are now intent on elongating this horrible forum by going off at a tangent about censorship in other websites, overprotectiveness, parental guidance, the craziness of the wiki and what have you. Consensus is already against censorship, and now people are flogging a dead horse by continuing to argue! I never even cared in the slightest about the whole thing in the beginning, yet everyone is making it out to be a huge problem. Just move on, people.10:39, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
While I respectfully disagree with your statement that my argument is a part of a bandwagon,I wish you,Solace,Myself and everyone else the best of luck with this forum and stating that I will be pulling out and will no longer comment on this forum.ChuckfinleLP (talk) 18:33, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Chuck even you saying "BS" should even be allowed User:SplashTheHedgehog/Signature323:03, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
(One last thing) It seems that there won't be a template...are there an y objections to the cessation of this forum? If not, it will be closed.14:24, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
Nope, no, there are no objections, no one cares anymore, it's conclusive, there won't be a template despite all the craziness that took place in this forum. That's that then. No point in going on any longer. Let me close it. Goodbye, everyone!!! ...I do NOT want to see a forum turn out like this EVER AGAIN.10:08, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
Should there be a template warning about vulgar language - voting