All posts by MysteriousMalice

1: @Flowerpuns “Okay, but... that isn't true. How do you know Solaris isn't immune? Mephiles isn't immune, but he's just one part of Solaris. Solaris, when complete, absolutely can withstand the nothingness of time. Why? Because the game says so! The game explicitly states Solaris's goals and treats them as if they will come true. What do you know that the game itself doesn't?

In fact, literally in Sonic 06 we see Solaris existing in a void of nothingness just fine (And I'm not talking about the rift, I'm talking about his true form. That simple light in the middle of the void is Solaris, and seems to be doing peachy)”

I know what current and previous official material say and imply with or without each other.

Mephiles IS Solaris. He is Solaris's mind. Also, 06 NEVER said he was able to withstand nothingness.

If you want to prove me wrong, then please go copy-paste the sections in the scripts of 06 that say so. I can and will gladly wait.

Until then, no, we don't see Solaris existing in a void because they never show him in a void. The entirety of Last Story takes place in the time-space rift. The light in it is Solaris, and the background of the final boss is the same as rift.

Not to mention that White Space, a void where time doesn't exist, is a place he can't escape and is borderline powerless in without the machinations of someone like Black Doom to give him the chance he desires.

So, no, he can't withstand nothingness.

2: @Talking Gine “I think you may have missed a key details here. Solaris in his complete form could be 'defeated', but not truly destroyed, so Sonic and Elise had to blow out the flame to prevent Solaris from ever maturing into that form. As a flame, Solaris doesn't have access to all of his power, and for whatever reason he needed time to develop into his complete, omnitemporal form.

So bringing Mephiles back doesn't mean anything when he doesn't have Iblis or access to Solaris' full power. He has control over time but he isn't above it like Solaris is, so fixing the timeline would once again erase him like how Solaris was erased at the end of '06.”

No, I didn't. This still doesn't change ANY of what I said. At all. He was still erased and rendered nonexistent despite his temporal omnipresence.

I get and appreciate that you're trying to provide extra info, but I keep saying that it doesn't change what I've said because it still ultimately doesn't change anything.

3: In general, Solaris in his entirety, whether whole and complete, split and incomplete, but definitely both, was erased, period, and by manipulation of his own domain no less.

He is not above nor immune to nothingness and inexistence, and not even above or immune to his own domain. He wouldn't be self admittedly wanting to exist again if he wasn't.

Again, Mephiles IS Solaris's mind, what he says and thinks is what Solaris says and thinks. Heck, he's even trying to get Shadow to HELP HIM exist again during their fight in SXS Generations!

He was, whether he was aware of it or not (and I lean towards the "not aware" side of this dichotomy), ignorantly working towards his own self-destruction.

Whether he won or lost, he would be rendering himself nonexistent with no one but himself to blame. Even though he'd likely blame everyone else but himself.

He's self-destructively evil.

@Myself 123

Solaris isn't above nor immune to inexistence and was ultimately ignorantly working towards his own self-destruction.

That's the point I'm making.

@Talking Gina

1: So, basically, a headcanon that ignores them flying up to and down from the ball of light that is Solaris within what is explicitly said to be the time-space rift, and how it's explicitly stated in 06 that time is in the process of being devoured to the point of eventual collapse.

2: If he truly transcended time, then he wouldn't have been erased by being blown out in the past.

3: He literally says he doesn't exist, wants to exist, and wants to REINTEGRATE himself into the timeline. He is inexistant. Everything brought into white space during Generations is inexistant until Time Eater is beaten, and even then Solaris was inexistant before the events of Generations. So Time Eater being beaten wouldn't have brought him back, and he would have had to force his reintegration - which is what he tried and failed to do as you yourself even pointed out.

It's like the Nobodies from Kingdom Hearts. Solaris was an extant being rendered inexistant that wants to exist again.

If he were what you claim then he wouldn't be trying to exist again, and he wouldn't have even been erased at all. Period.

@Talking Gina

1: The time-space rift he was in during the Last Story wasn't a void. They literally and explicitly say that it's a rift that won't exist once Solaris collapses time into nothingness.

He did not collapse time, he was in the process of doing so and was stopped before he could.

The whole point was stopping him, not reversing what he did like with Thanos's Snap in the MCU.

2: Solaris certainly doesn't think so on that front. So, whether it would or wouldn't is a bit irrelevant.

He is literally in a place where time doesn't exist and is outright desperately trying to exist again once the chance comes to him because he doesn't exist and has no real power anymore. Time still exists, but he can't do anything because he doesn't exist anymore.

Again, as I've said, he was literally ignorantly working towards his own demise.

Everything he is relies on time's existence with his presence within it. Without time and his presence in time, he is nothing both figuratively and literally. Time can exist without him, but he cannot exist without time.

Doomed if he won and doomed if he lost.

The mere fact that he himself acknowledges his inexistence in a place where time doesn't exist says it all.

It's why I say that even with the motive you put forth for him, and everything else you've added onto that, he'd still be dooming himself regardless.

It simply doesn't change anything.

@Talking Gina

Eh, possibly. But that possible motive doesn't really alter or change anything I've said. Whether it's added or not.

Honestly, such a motive would only really greater highlight my point: that Solaris was ignorantly working towards his own self-destruction. Believing he would be greater than or exempt from inexistence when in reality he wouldn't be. At all.

EDIT: Like I said, Solaris wanted to render everything inexistent. He was ignorantly asking for and wanting his own demise. It's a fate he was going to bring upon himself whether he realized it or not.

Though such a motive would actually make his fate a tad funny. Because it amounts to him petulantly wanting to be a lazy bum and ultimately getting to be that in the absolute worst way.

@Talking Gina

Quotes from Eggman:

1. "But... There should be something that's anchoring him in this dimension."

2. "What? A consciousness!? Hmm... That's it! That's his core!"

3. "Even if we can't stop his form, then we can stop his consciousness!"

Quote from Amy: "Look! There's a strange thing in the middle of Solaris! Isn't that the core?"

They never attacked the core in the 1st phase, just the body. Phase 2 was realizing that doing that is pointless since the consciousness would just keep reviving it that and hitting the static target NOT covered by the safety net Solaris' temporal omnipresence gives him was the surefire way to beat him.

The End is NOT the purple moon. That's just the form WE the players see it take. Everyone sees it differently and thus confronts something different from anyone else perceiving it. I notice you're defaulting to what's essentially the "HE MONKE" non-argument that Godzilla fans used against King Kong fans when that movie was coming out in regards to this point.

Also, how exactly does what you said affect the fact that Solaris would still be fighting The End across time due to the form its fighting him in being able to do so? (This is a rhetorical question.) Last I checked, Sonic, Shadow, and Silver aren't temporally omnipresent either and yet they managed to fight and beat Solaris.

Able to fight Solaris across time =/= needing to be omnipresent throughout time. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver quite literally prove that. Otherwise, using your logic, their fight with him wouldn't have ever happened or been possible. You're entire counter just now is LITERALLY torn apart by the game itself.

I got Cosmo, but why is Kimger from The Amazing Digital Circus there?

@Talking Gina

This is going to be long, so bear with me.

Literally from the immediate above reply to yours:

"EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention the Morio Kishimoto (literal director of the game whose word has FAR more weight and say in things than Ian's does) confirmed fact that The End's form is different for everyone perceiving it, with the purple moon being what WE the players see. Meaning a hypothetical fight between the two would have Solaris fighting something HE sees as the embodiment of death; something able to attack him at all points in time and kill him.

So, not only does Solaris' temporal omnipresence have an easy bypass for those in a Super Form or of a greater level of power, it'd also be rendered moot simply by The End's incarnation taking a form that'd allow them to nullify what little advantage it gives!"

Quote from Elise: "No... Something's different... I can feel a large, powerful consciousness coming from Solaris!"

Quotes from Eggman:

1. "But... There should be something that's anchoring him in this dimension."

2. "What? A consciousness!? Hmm... That's it! That's his core!"

3. "Even if we can't stop his form, then we can stop his consciousness!"

Quote from Amy: "Look! There's a strange thing in the middle of Solaris! Isn't that the core?"

Solaris' consciousness, which takes the form of his core, is what's anchoring him to Sonic's dimension. His armor is able to be broken by attacks from the Super Form. Destroying his consciousness/core bypasses his temporal omnipresence and kills him across all of time, resulting in time resetting and returning him to his true form as the Flame of Hope where he can be snuffed out and wiped from existence.

The End as a being whose incarnations differ depending on everyone who sees, is able to overpower and depower base and enhanced Super Forms just by sheer power alone while in a WEAKENED state, can tear the fabric of dimensions apart JUST as a means of travel for said incarnations, AND can endlessly return via reincarnation, effectively checks off all boxes needed to just absolutely wreck Solaris.

Even discounting all of that, there's also the fact that Sonic REMEMBERS the events of 06 and thus Solaris and how to beat/kill it. Meaning, as The End has seen Sonic's mind and his entire history, it also has the knowledge on how to do so in addition to the means.

The End can kill Solaris by the exact same means it was killed originally in the game. Except even more brutally. And even without that knowledge it can still do it any by simply just fighting it! Sonic and Co did, why wouldn't The End?

Additionally, Solaris has a definite and comprehensive form with flaws and weaknesses that can be exploited with definitive ways to end him; he has an impenetrable shield that he needs to lower in order to attack and his mind in a physical damagable form for cripes sake!

The End has none of those things and yet was able to overpower, depower, and give Sonic his absolute hardest fight yet to the point where SUPER SONIC was actually visibly DAMAGED in addition to unconscious by the end of it. Not IMPLIED to be hurt like with most Super Sonic bosses that can knock rings out of him, but don't actually carry over to story proper in a cutscene or notice by the characters. But actually visibly damaged in cutscenes and noticed by the characters. Literally, the only other boss that even comes close to doing that is Perfect Dark Gaia, who fought Super Sonic to exhaustion while also fighting Chip at the same time, and pretty much everyone can agree that Solaris stomps PFG out the salad bar if ONLY due to his temporal omnipresence nullifying the power gap in Dark Gaia's favor. The End's only real "weaknesses" thus far are that it can be trapped in another dimension with the right means to do so, and that it's incarnations are not undefeatable.

In a hypothetical fight between them, WE'D be seeing the Purple Moon while Solaris sees and fights what he sees as death, something that can genuinely attack him across all of time and kill him. After all, even time has its end.

Solaris' temporal omnipresence is basically the only thing that saves him in fights like these. Heck, one could easily dare say that he'd probably RELY on it. But the absolute second it's rendered null and void in ANY way at all, such as attacking something that ISN'T covered by it like his consciousness/core? He's basically a sitting duck, which is exactly what happened when the core was the new target in the boss fight. Heck, Mephiles wasn't even immune to any time stopping powers outside of his own as shown when Shadow used Chaos Control to stop time and freeze him when he was sealing him in the Scepter of Darkness.

But with The End? No such luck. You're either in for a long haul of a fight or need to aquire levels of power that are just as likely to kill you as they are to help you. And the former scenario isn't even itself a guarantee given that Super Sonic didn't even actually finish The End off in the base game scenario.

@Talking Gina

What you claim as "fabricating evidence" is information taken straight from the games themselves. Unlike you. I actually use the source material for my arguments and show my receipts. Whereas you have done nothing but parrot overblown nonsense and baseless claims with no substance or proof to back them up, even when what you claim contradicts the very source material you claim to "know" more than I do.

Solaris is dead, he died when his consciousness was destroyed (was literally shown exploding and dying immediately after the final hit), and again when he was blown out and wiped from existence when that happened to prevent the events of the game from happening. He cannot depower the Super Form because he has never been shown nor OFFICIALY stated to actually be able to do so, and what damage he can do to said form (10 rings) is trumped by The End (30 rings). He was not immortal, the fact that he literally DIED twice over proves that. Unlike, say, Dark Gaia who is still alive, dormant, and asleep within the core of Earth even AFTER getting Super Sonic shot through his brain!

Whereas The End, in spite of Ian claiming otherwise and admitting 3 days ago that said claims are HIS OWN PERSONAL OPINION and not ACTUAL OFFICIAL WORD on the matter, is explicitly stated in an APPROVED official work to be able to return in other incarnations and forms, and shown to be able to tank and depower Super Sonic and Super Sonic 2 respectively. Something Solaris was never shown nor stated to be able to do. Heck, Super Sonic's been in a dimensional rift merging two universes together and threatening to destroy them both in a game released in the SAME EXACT YEAR (Sonic Rush)! So that makes Solaris even LESS likely to be able to do that!

Ian is not the be all end all of what is and is not in Sonic lore and stories. SEGA, Sonic Team, and people like Iizuka and Kishimoto are. He's just the guy they hired to flesh out what they give him on the western side of things. That's it.

The Lore Team is simply there to organize and make sense of it all.

All of this is fact, period.

If you're unhappy with everything I've brought up, then you're simply unhappy with the source material itself. That simple.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention the Morio Kishimoto (literal director of the game whose word has FAR more weight and say in things than Ian's does) confirmed fact that The End's form is different for everyone perceiving it, with the purple moon being what WE the players see. Meaning a hypothetical fight between the two would have Solaris fighting something HE sees as the embodiment of death; something able to attack him at all points in time and kill him.

So, not only does Solaris' temporal omnipresence have an easy bypass for those in a Super Form or of a greater level of power, it'd also be rendered moot simply by The End's incarnation taking a form that'd allow them to nullify what little advantage it gives!

1. What point are you trying to make? He still said that Solaris is stronger, saying that he's on an entirely different level being a 'reality melter' whereas The End is a 'planet destroyer'.

A: And he literally said that all things he says on Twitter and Bumblekast are HIS OWN OPINION. Not actual official word. Once again, 32:57 in on the November 13th 2023 Bumblekast. It's right there on YouTube.

1. I'm not talking about the flame, I'm talking about Solaris' boss form, which isn't killed.

B: Yes, it is. They rendered it braindead by destroying Solaris' consciousness. It is dead. Time reset after his death and Sonic and Elise were sent back to when Solaris was in its truest form. They literally show the Final Boss Solaris exploding and dying!

1. No, you're thinking about his core. Super Sonic can attack his core, but not his armor. Super Shadow and Super Silver have to smash his armor so Super Sonic can reach his core.

C: Literally watched gameplay footage of all three doing damage to the armor and core. No single character is designated to a specific part of Solaris in that fight.

1. Solaris didn't die, he was wiped from existence because he couldn't die. The End is just arrogant like Black Doom and thinks it's more powerful than it truly is. And besides, it's literally dead, you see it explode.

D: No, he could die, and did, which caused time to reset and allow Sonic and Elise to erase him from exostence by blowing out and killing his true form. He was wiped from existence because all of the events of the game would happen if they didn't, this is explicitly stated in the game itself. Not because he was unkillable.

Yeah, as a pretty implicit ploy to pull the rug out from under Sonic and destroy him and Earth in one fell swoop as a way to make good on its word about how his efforts against its current incarnation are ultimately pointless. It's health bar isn't even completely depleted when this happens either, and Sage implicitly reacts in a way that confirms the above ploy. One of the major differences between BGO and FHO is that Super Sonic Cyber was strong enough to damage The End's incarnation enough to render the ploy moot and reduce it to the meteor shower at the end. Whereas BGO had Sage impact The End and absorb as much of she could to offset the destruction.

Again, it literally says that it can return in another form later on.

1. For starters, you decided that the Final Horizon was canon when as far as I'm concerned they've never said that (I'm not saying it's not canon, but I'm not gonna say it is either), and regardless it doesn't invalidate the original ending. And you're once again twisting my words, I said that only Super Shadow can damage Solaris' armor, and once he did that the others were able to attack his core.

E: Both base game Ouranos and the Final Horizon Ouranos are canon. They're just each a different way things could've gone, different possibilities based on a single choice, as literally stated and described by Sage in the game.

Yes, you contradicted yourself by saying that and acknowledging otherwise.

1. What are you even on about? You've obviously not played Sonic '06 cause you clearly know very little about it, not to mention that you're twisting things again. I never said or even implied that you were fighting Solaris not at his true power, I said that the flame from 10 years ago wasn't complete yet as Solaris was slowly growing and becoming more powerful over time. And exactly as I said before, the experiment caused Solaris to split and become Mephiles and Iblis.

F: I have and watched Playthroughs since I no longer have the game. Yes, the experiment failing and the resulting explosion caused Solaris to split. Heck, Ian himself even stated in a prior Bumblekast that he thinks the explosion of that failure is absolutely not an indicator of Solaris' power whatsoever.

1. No, it's because they couldn't fight him in the present. Solaris exists in all times, but there aren't three Solaris's. With that logic, there'd be over 18 quintillion Solaris's and another one for every zeptosecond of the future. And again, that's not true, they're literally talking to each other throughout the boss and the damage that they do to him stays for the other characters. That's the undisputable fact, and you're just using the word "canonically" to give more credit to your head canon.

G: They literally say that Solaris exists in the past, present, and future. Not every second of time ever, but the three points that make up all of time. What you're doing is arguing semantics. I've stated exactly what they said and outright implied in the game via dialogue and actions. They needed Sonic because they needed to attack Solaris in all 3 points in time at once to ensure it can't just render it all moot by remaining extant in the one other point they couldn't hit without him. Otherwise, if there was truly only ONE Solaris to fight, they wouldn't have needed Sonic or even needed to double team Solaris if that was the case. The fight in gameplay is purely for the sake of the gameplay and the players. It's called "Gameplay and Story Segregation."

They couldn't fight Solaris in JUST the present because doing so wouldn't do anything as he would still exist in the remaining two time periods, hence why they needed Sonic to cover the uncovered period.

1. Yeah, because it's freed from Cyber Space, that doesn't mean that it could just travel to the Sol Dimension because it feels like it. And obviously you didn't see the whole boss, because if I remember correctly they break his chains that're holding him into that world, then fight the out of control Solaris. And no, the otherworldly shriek he makes is not Mephiles screaming 'no', it's just a strange noise as Solaris doesn't talk. And if this was the case, why would they need to go back and wipe Solaris from existence when he was just a flame? If he could just be killed then they wouldn't need to do that.

H: Cyber Space itself is an entire separate dimension. The End was able to travel from it back into Sonic's after what was preventing it from doing so was brought down. Ergo, and thusly, meaning The End is able to freely travel between dimensions. So, yes, is would be capable of going to the Sol Dimension if it wanted. There is literally nothing saying or implying that it can't.

Nope, video I'm watching has the entire fight from the title card to the very end. Literally, the only thing remotely close to what you're claiming is when Eggman says that Solaris is anchoring himself to their dimension, which is made clear to be his consciousness/core later on.

They went back because Solaris still managed to do a metric ton of damage even if he didn't manage to collapse time into nothingness like he wanted to. Going back and blowing his true form out was to, as I've stated numerous times now, to prevent all of that and undo the events that caused it all. This is literally stated in that very cutscene.

1. I never said or even implied that Mephiles or Iblis were beyond dimensions, you're twisting things again, and nor was Solaris in his flame form. Solaris slowly grew overtime, and once he was powerful enough, the Duke decided that they'd use him to gain control over time. The Solaris that you fight in the boss is his complete and most powerful form, while the flame is a primitive Solaris that hasn't reached his full power yet. In Last Mode, you see him destroy the universe, leaving nothing but a few space-time distortions. The End's greatest feat is destroying a planet, something that even Eggman can do with the Eclipse Cannon.

I: Oh, good, so you see how your logic on that makes no sense. You know, because Mephiles and Iblis ARE Solaris.

The End literally said its destroyed stars and tears the fabric of dimensions to travel between them. Not to mention that Solaris needed the Chaos Emeralds to even assume his Final Boss form and didn't even actually destroy the universe. He destabilized time to cause a timespace rift that he could use to devour all timelines and collapse time into nothingness. But was stopped before he could succeed after making some progress. Stopping him from doing so was the whole point.

Quote from Eggman: "This creature will consume all existing timelines and time itself will collapse and disappear into nothingness."

It was in the process of doing so, but was stopped.

Literally watching footage as I type all this.

1. No one ever said that Solaris can't do that, and are you saying that Knuckles must be more powerful than Solaris because he also knocked the Chaos Emeralds out of Super Sonic?

J: Yet he never did it when, by your logic, he supposedly absolutely could and should have. Yet, again, did not. So, either some sort of convoluted reason to wave that away and ignore that fact that he never did so or he simply just wasn't ever able to. Because, otherwise, why didn't he do it then if he could?

Also, no, I and no one else is saying that at all. That is a fallacy. Knuckles caught Super Sonic completely off guard in a non-life or death situation. Whereas both Solaris and The End were in implicit life or death scenarios, yet only the latter actually pulled it off by overpowering Super Sonic 2. And if a foe weakened by 10,000+ years of captivity in an entirely walled off and separate dimension inhibiting their ability to escape (even as the source of said mechanisms is used and drained time and again) is able to do that to an ENHANCED version of a form that easily enabled Solaris' enemies to bypass his temporal omnipresence by destroying his consciousness? Then I think it's safe to say that The End is the superior threat here.

1. It really is, though. Ian Flynn was one of Frontiers writers after all, so I'd assume he'd have a better understanding of it than you do.

A: And yet he admitted on the Bumblekast two days ago that his statements about The End on Twitter were his own opinion, not any real official word.

1. Solaris can't die in his complete form. The only reason they could kill him was by temporarily knocking him unconscious so they could wipe his flame out of existence. The End on the other hand, whether you like it or not, is dead.

B: You literally just spouted nonsense and acted like it was fact. Literally nothing that you said here is true nor stated in any official material whatsoever. The small flame of hope IS Solaris' true and complete form that is explicitly stated truth and fact.

1. They had to destroy his consciousness so he wouldn't have complete control over time, but given that he's unkillable, they had to blow out his flame instead. Also, Super Shadow's time warping chaos abilities alongside Solaris' own attacks are the only things that can damage is 'armor', something that The End can't do.

C: Every Super character can damage Solaris' "armor" actually. Literally watching gamplay footage of it as I type this. Sonic literally does the most damage. Blowing out his flame wasn't due to him being unkillable, that is literal fan wanking, they did that because not doing so would just result in everything happening all over again in an endless cycle of destruction. They literally say so with NO mention of killing Solaris being in and of itself a reason for doing the deed.

1. By preparing all they had to do was find the Chaos Emeralds, in which they did for Solaris as well.

D: And in the Final Horizon, which IS canon, they had to do more.

1. Other way around actually, The End died, whereas Solaris can't die in his complete form and needed to be wiped from existence just to deal with him.

E: In other words, Solaris died, stayed dead, and can't return unlike The End who is explicitly stated in the SEGA approved official material to be able to do so. Quote from Frontiers: "You strike this incarnation with all your might. It changes nothing. You are not brave. You are not victorious. No matter what form I take. The End comes for you all."

1. I'm sick of seeing this inaccurate head canon used as a way to 'prove' that Solaris is weaker. Super Sonic and some robot killed The End, whereas Solaris needed Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Silver just to be weakened. The fight with Solaris was literally not a '3 vs 3 situation' as shown in the game, all three of them go to fight the same Solaris at the same time, talk to each other throughout the boss, and all damage different parts of him that can be seen when playing as every character.

F: Oh, hi, Final Horizon the 100% canon other possibility of the final island. Also, quote by Silver directly from the game: "If you say it exist in the past, present, and future. Then I'll destroy them all at once!" Also, didn't you literally just try to claim that only Shadow could hurt Solaris? Kind of contradicting yourself there.

1. You seem to be forgetting that Solaris hadn't grown to his full power yet, Solaris' flame couldn't do much on its own as he hadn't finished developing yet, and it wasn't 'a small explosion' that separated him, Solaris was the explosion, and it was an experiment to gain control over time itself. It's not until Solaris finished developing that he'd be that powerful.

G: WOW! You literally JUST stole information from Frontiers, transplanted it onto Solaris, and mixed it with disinformation about 06! The End was the one in a weakened state after emerging, not Solaris, they literally said they had to beat it before it regained its true power and became truly unbeatable. Literally NOTHING of the sort was EVER said about Solaris. Solaris is the small flame Elise blew out at the end of the game, the explosion that split Solaris was the result of the experiment failing.

1. For starters, the whole "3 vs 3 battle" thing is not true, as there's only one Solaris who's not bound to any specific time, and it's shown both in the cutscenes and in game that they're all fighting the same Solaris.

H: The whole reason they brought Sonic back was because just Shadow and Silver would only deal with two of the three Solaris. One again, quotes from Eggman, Silver, and Shadow:

Eggman: No. It is a transcendent lifeform that exists in the past, present, and future. Defeating it here, now, would do nothing.

Silver: "If you say it exists in the past, present, and future. Then I'll destroy them all at once!"

Shadow: "It might have been possible. If he were still alive."

If there was only ONE Solaris, then they wouldn't have highlighted this fact nor pointed out the NEED for Sonic at all. That is just an undisputable fact. The reason you're fighting only ONE in GAMEPLAY is purely for the sake of the player. Canonically, they are each fighting their own Solaris. All controlled by a single consciousness.

1. Outside of that, nothing ever said that The End can freely travel dimensions, and another thing that I'd like to note is that they say in the boss that Solaris isn't tied into any dimension, so it'd be impossible to seal him away as his mere presence shatters dimensions.

I: Oh, hi, base game and Final Horizon Ouranos where The End is implicitly shown emerging from Cyber Space within Supreme. As well as the fact that the literal wall around Cyber Space (described by The End multiple times as a wall between dimensions) propped up by the Titans and six towers on Rhea, all powered by the Chaos Emeralds, are what keep The End from travelling between dimensions and just leaving to continue its ambitions. All of which is explicitly stated in Frontiers.

Also, Eggman LITERALLY says at the beginning of the fight that Solaris is anchoring himself to Sonic's dimension. A.k.a his consciousness. Literally watching gameplay footage to verify your claims, and I am not shocked that it's disproving everything you've claimed thus far.

Also, what Eggman said was that they can't stop its FORM since Solaris' mind would just keep resurrecting it. Hence why they had to attack the core and kill his mind. You literally hear Mephiles faintly screaming "NO" in the background at the end. He is NOT falling unconscious as you're claiming.

Also, also, how did Mephiles and Iblis get sealed if they're both supposedly beyond dimensions? Heck, how was Solaris even contained enough to be kept like an heirloom or experimented on if he's beyond dimensions and able to shatter them with his mere presence as you claim?

Do you see how your claims don't make sense with the source material?

1. Another thing I'd like to note is that while this is something that The End can also do, as far as I'm concerned Solaris, Dark Gaia, the Egg Salamander, the Egg Wizard, and The End are the only villains that can actually hurt Super Sonic.

J: Well, yeah, THAT goes without saying. No argument there. Though, you DO know that The End's attacks either one hit kill (base game) or shave off 30 rings from Super Sonic (Final Horizon), right? Which is way more than any other boss. Heck, Solaris only shaves off like 10 rings (gameplay footage confirms that, jumped from 41 to 31 after getting hit). Not to mention that it's managed to do what Solaris and all those other bosses couldn't and not only overpower but also DEPOWER not just base Super Sonic but Super Sonic 2, an ENHANCED Super Sonic, in one attack.

@Talking Gina

Name a single headcanon I used. Everything I've said is said and demonstrated in both these games as well as by Ian himself. Nothing I've stated contradicts anything from the official source material.

November 13th Bumblekast the question he admits the statements he makes on the show and on Twitter like the ones regarding The End are all HIS OWN OPINION is at 32:57. Look it up.

Unless you WANT to explain how the supposedly temporally omnipresent and immortal Solaris being explicitly killed and erased from existence by his explicitly stated true from (the small flame of hope said to be gifted to the Soleanna royal family) being blown out not only makes sense but is also NOT self-contradictory.

The End.

1: Ian's statement about Solaris being stronger is HIS OWN OPINION. Not an official confirmation like others say. He's even said as much in the November 13th Bumblekast.

2: Solaris is dead, meaning he's NOT immortal like some people preach. If he was then he wouldn't have been literally wiped from existence. Ian even said that he's inclined to agree that Solaris' feats as the Final Boss were due to the Chaos Emeralds, not his own innate power. The mere notion of otherwise is inherently contradictory to the canon events and facts.

3: Contrary to the cherry picking most people do in regards of how Solaris can be beaten, there is a way to bypass that which is literally said in Sonic 06: destroying his consciousness. Which would render his body braindead and catatonic across all of time. Which is not only EXACTLY what happened, but also something The End can pull off VERY EASILY.

3: The End wasn't able to do much after being released because the heroes moved to prevent it from doing anything as soon as it got out. Unlike with Solaris, whom they were in a race against the clock to stop. So that's not a good point to use either way, because the scenarios are completely different. The heroes had to PREPARE to fight The End before it became able to do anything, whereas Solaris had them scrounging up a means to fight AS it was trying to do what it wanted.

4: Unlike Solaris, The End actually IS immortal as it can reincarnate in another form later on, and said forms are just avatars it uses to do what it wants. Destroying its physical form does nothing but prevent it from actively destroying everything for a time. In other words, diverting it and buying time. Bragging =/= Lying, and I frankly hate Ian for injecting that idiotic notion into people's heads now.

5: The End explicitly needed power greater than the Super Form alone could give to actually be beat, the Chaos Emeralds + Cyber Corruption, and was able to outright overpower and depower Super Sonic 2 an ENHANCED Super Sonic, something Solaris straight up could not do period despite his supposed "superior" power to a BASE Super Form. People forget that not only are Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Silver all powered by the SINGULAR SET of Chaos Emeralds, if even that considering Sonic needed to share the power with them, but also that the fight with Solaris was a 3 vs 3 situation. Three Super Hedgehogs fighting three separate Solaris' controlled by a singular consciousness. Not 3 beings ganging up on 1 entity, which The End trumps Solaris in anyway due to outmatching all 4 Titans, all of which NECESSITATED Super Sonic!

6: "Oh, but Solaris eats dimensions, The End couldn't break out of 1, all hail daddy Solaris!" A dimension able to contain infinite amounts of data, able to trap you unless you have NOTHING holding you down, and was implicitly walled off dimensionally to prevent outside forces from releasing The End. Not to mention The End was also sealed up inside of Supreme, who was also sealed up inside of Cyber Space which was blocked off the dimensional wall erected by the Rhea Island Towers. Also, by this logic, Solaris is stupid weak due to being split up by a small explosion and locked up inside of both a scepter and 7 year old girl and incapable of breaking out of them or just instantly re-merging right then and there after being split. That's also not mentioning that The End is able to FREELY travel between dimensions and was implicitly incapable of that due to the seals in the Titans and Rhea Towers, all of which were IMPLICITLY designed to do just that.

So, yeah, The End.

@ClassicSonic1992

Only thing there is the page from the bible about her, Sonic, and Tails. No link (reference or otherwise) to said bible itself anywhere that I can see.