@Flash-Gold-Echo Chaos Knuckles is literally omnipresent and exists outside time and space

Ok but can he beat Goku

Yes

@CartoonsAreLife!

Okay. But the nanosecond he steps in time to defeat Flash, he will be wiped out before he was born.

But fights usually determine the results of the fight with the whole package, not just "X beats Y before Y transforms". Therefore, such an argument is null in an fight’s outcome.

In a fight, Flash would just punch Chaos Knuckles 12341630530577145791982558891816395750263 times in 0.00000000000000000000000000000000008 seconds.

Chaos Knuckles literally exists outside the fabric of time and space itself, he could dodge all those punches easily.

But how could he fight, if he is outside time? He would need to go inside time. And the moment he goes inside time, he gets beaten up.

I’m gonna try and explain this one more time.

Base Knuckles is horribly outclassed in every category, and he has far less hax to boot. Then the Super form, or Hyper in this case, suffered from similar problems to Super Sonic.

However, Chaos Knuckles was the overlying factor that turned the tables in Knuckles' favor.

So recall how Flash has feats of outrunning the Speed Force, running to the 4th dimension, a whole bunch of others that out him up to irrelevant speed at his best? Yeah, well... those require some form of movement to pull off, right? Yeah, well...

When one with the Chaos Force, Knuckles is omnipresent. A speed so fast that it's not even speed, it's a state of being. Given that the Chaos Force is above the Cosmic Interstate that keeps the multiverse together and even exists outside of time and space, Knuckles becoming one with it gives him this potential. A potential so much above any typical speed tier that it's nowhere near possible for Flash to match unless he went through the same thing with the Speed Force

When you exist here, there and everywhere outside of both time and space, there's no way you're going to land as much as a single attack or even avoid one.

So speed was a given, but that left how Flash lost despite having things such as time travel and the absurdity of the Speed Force as a concept. Well, time travelling wouldn't exactly work. Chaos Knuckles exists outside of time and space, and has the ability to keep Flash with him at all times. Plus, there's a huge doubt Wally could even move fast enough to do so in the first place, considering there's an omnipresent god watching over him and halting his every move.

What about the Speed Force? Doesn't that exist beyond the Bleed, which keeps certain universes apart? Very similar to the Cosmic Interstate, only with the reverse role. Both the Speed and Chaos Forces are considered higher dimensions beyond time and space, with both being at similar dimensional levels, only Knuckles' connection to his force involved him becoming one with it. In contrast, Wally could outrun it, but still draws power from it.

didn't Wally survive Black Flash? He erased him by running to the ends of the time where the concept of Death doesn't even exist. Couldn't he do the same with the Chaos Force, or remove it's concept like the death part of the Speed Force?

Well the time travel stuff we've already covered, and Wally doesn't do that unless he's absolutely on the edge. As for the concept removal, he's only really done that with the Speed Force's death aspect. That, and Flash hasn't survived conceptual erasure himself. He's tanked death on the conceptual level, sure, but not erasure. Both are very different.

what about the 6th dimensional thing Green Lantern talked about that could move through space or some crap? The one with the Flash's creepy grin.

Green Lantern only stated it was something 6D. As you know, we tend to take feats over statements unless said statements are backed up in some way. And moving through space isn't really going to do much to someone who literally exists everywhere outside of it in the Chaos Force.

doesn't Knuckles... die in his Chaos form? Two things regarding that. One, Knuckles only really died when he used far too much power to the point of fatality. Two, that's not really a factor. On Death Battle a death causing form has been used as a determining factor in the results before. Might Guy is a big example of this. And on Death Battle, we determine the winners and losers through "who dies first". At that point, Knuckles is also only killing himself.

One could also assume that Wally wins through blitzing Knuckles' base form. While this could be a victory for Wally, Death Battles determine the results of the fight with the whole package, not just "X beats Y before Y transforms". Therefore, such an argument is null in an episode's outcome

Knuckles' god powers and direct connection to the Chaos Force granted him a shocking win.

Okay, Chaos Knuckles could dodge any attack by not being there. But how would he hit Flash? Flash is pretty smart and that's why he could use his powers better. Knuckles, on the other hand, might be a good, but he is a bit dumb. Flash could lure him into a trap, couldn't he?