Forum:Blog Policy Amendment

Alright, anyone who's interested in making socializing blogs and doesn't wanna lose that, I suggest you listen up and pay attention. Recently, another forum was used to decide if we would use the chat feature, which got an overwhelmingly positive vote. However, this does not come without cost: now some people wish to make a stipulation that all general blogs not directly related to Sonic be forbidden. To be quite frank, I think this is extreme. We've always had non-Sonic blogs on this place, even back when I first joined. However, it's not so much the content of the blogs that's the problem: it's the sheer number of these blogs that's brought them under scrutiny! The ruling that no socializing blogs be made rather than using the chat is especially unfair to those who do not wish to use the chat, as well as those who cannot, either by not using Oasis or via technical difficulties. So, in order to find some even ground, I came up with this possible amendment to the rule: each User is allowed to make as many Sonic-related blogs as they wish, and as many blogs that directly relate to the User making them (family, schedules, vacations, etc.). The reason there aren't any limits on these are because this is a Sonic Wiki, so limiting blogs related to the very subject of the wiki would be... I wanna say stupid. The reason there are no limits on blogs about personal lives is because well, it's life: you never know when something is gonna come up or how often it will occur, so trying to place limits on it would pretty much be trial and error. However, each user is only permitted to make two blogs a week for something that does not either directly relate to Sonic nor relates directly to the person making the blog (like talking about a different franchise, world subjects, etc). To be more specific about personal blogs: THEY MUST RELATE TO AND DIRECTLY IMPACT THE PERSON MAKING THEM, NOT THE PERSON/CHARACTER THEY PRETEND/BELIEVE TO BE (yeah, I'm looking at you two 'Sonic' and Chromia). Now, is this amendment reasonable? Because suddenly expecting everyone to drop socializing blogs at this point certainly isn't going to happen.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 20:34, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Gen, I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying the chat needs to be taken down whatsoever. I just don't think that in the process, non-Sonic blogs should be deemed forbidden. And actually Gen, enabling and disabling the chat is- quite literally- as simple as a single click. What I'm suggesting is simply allowing both functions to be used, for those who prefer one or the other.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 08:07, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

And Gen, I think you are getting far too heated over this simple matter. I don't want to kill the chat whatsoever, and this isn't about my own thoughts about the skin or the chat either. I agree that the chat can be useful: it's used on SFW as well, which does in fact cut down the number of irrelevant blogs. I'm not asking people to pick one or the other: all I'm asking is that both functions be allowed. Taking your own statement into account, why don't we try this: use both the chat feature and the blogs freely, and see what happens? If you force people to use one feature or disable the other, then of course people will use the other avaliable feature instead. So, why not just let both be used, and see what happens then? With the chat feature active, it might offer another outlet for conversation, and reduce the number of blogs without any limitations on the blogs anyways. I'm not trying to be stubborn about the chat or the skin: I just want to find a compromise instead of picking one feature over the other. So, can we try and find such a compromise without getting overly passionate about this situation? And keep in mind Gen, "everyone else agreed upon" isn't an accurate statement: most everyone else who voted agreed. Let's be frank: not a lot of Users involve themselves in such matters like this. So, can we all be calm about this and find some even ground so that we can all be satisfied with this?--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 08:52, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

(sighs) Okay, I don't know what got you so pissed off Gen. My problem isn't that non-Sonic blogs were limited, but they were forbidden. If there were some sort of limit that still allowed people to make the blogs, then that's a perfectly reasonable compromise, isn't it? I'm sorry that for some reason you refuse on trying to compromise or find a balance, because that certainly isn't like you. Is anyone else willing to try and find middle ground at all? Anyone?--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 09:05, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Gen, you do realize that when we have this problem, it's merely the fact that neither is able to properly convey thoughts to the other. At least, from past experience that's how I see it.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 09:13, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with Kagimizu. I think it's better to have non-Sonic conversations in the chat and not in blogs because it would give the wiki a better layout for "all-things-Sonic". I find non-Sonic related blogs a bit annoying because it is off-topic and such topics are those kind of topics that are to share with a few friends. Thus, I do not really find the website any Sonic-like or appealing the way it should be if the Recent Wiki Activity is loaded with a topic that is under "My dad did this..." or "This guy died" because it spoils the presentation of the wesbite and I am afraid such topics are a bit too personal. If anyone would like to express such topics in the website then they can go to the chat, which is also safer. And I believe the point is to just share something even if it's a chat. Would you really mind it if it weren't a blog? I edit here for many reasons, and I try to aim at anyone. But there are specific readers I aim for, I am not sure if other users aim towards these kind of people but:


 * Readers who are new to Sonic
 * Readers who are not even Sonic fans
 * Readers who would just like to check this website out.

I always aim for these readers the most and I always wonder, "How would a non-Sonic fan read this?" which helps me when I am contributing. What if these readers see that the Recent Activity if filled with a topic aimed at a certain user? That wouldn't look very nice, would it? So I think it's better that we stop these non-Sonic blogs so that the wiki appears to look more busy, active and more Sonic-like rather then just some talkative socialized users that make this wiki look like a socializing website because "they just want to talk about something".
 * I have very high concerns for this amendment. I do not want anymore of this socializing fuss in this website. It's better that the community looks more organized in the Recent Activity rather then to just fill it up with non-Sonic related blog posts.--58SlugDrones • (Contact) 10:29, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

58, this is a community. No matter what socializing is gonna happen, and people should be free to do so. Should Recent Activity be filled to the brim with blogs? No, of course not. But do you really think that it will change anything if the people who do nothing but blogging have to take it to a chat? It's just gonna be the same problem on a different setting, with even less editing. With blogs people at least have to look at Recent Activity to see new comments, which in turn causes them to see other edits on the site. Make them go to the chat for all of their socializing and that's where they're gonna spend their entire day, with almost no actual editing. SNN will never be a site where people are solely focused on the subject content of the wiki: it's just how the people who inhabit the wiki are. I agree on one point though: TOO MANY BLOGS. However, I personally believe taking the blogs away entirely won't work, due to the aforementioned reasons. That's why I want to try and find some sort of balance. If people are allowed to use both, then maybe the wiki will actually have less blogging and more actual contributing. With two outlets instead of one, the blogs are bound to reduce on their own.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 20:14, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with this "Amendment". My reason being is the chat was made to cut down the number of irrelevant blogs, if you pass this amendment, it would make the whole reason of the chat's purpose gone. The chat was made to cut down the number of non-Sonic blogs, and so far, I've been on the chat for a lot of the time I am on the computer, I've seen many people enjoying it, and talking about non-Sonic subjects there. No one has complained about not being able to make blogs there. And so far, only two people have complained about this rule in general, while an overwhelming percent of the community agreed to having the chat, and not being able to make non-Sonic blogs. I do not see a reason for you to try and push your opinion farther when everyone else in the community disagrees with you. A lot of the community has already agreed to this, and the community already loves this new feature, and could care less about the blog rule. This is a 100% Positive outcome. The community is pleased, and the number of irrelevant blogs is cut down, as well as the recent activity not being flooded with Non-Sonic things. I don't see why you need to push your opinion farther in order to just get your way. --

(sighs) How many times do I have to say it? I want the blogs cut down too people!! I just don't think they need to be banned entirely to do it!! Geez!!--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 21:24, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, alright! I'm going to try to give an example. Now I'm going to do so in the form of a few questions. I don't want anyone to go into long, detailed explanations about their opinion ATM, even if you do know where I'm going with these questions. In order to properly understand what I'm trying to get at, please just answer the questions to the bes of your ability. NOW, question one:

What happens to water when it's under pressure, and only given one outlet?--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 21:42, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

I am in support of this amendment.

I'm not sure I like the idea of limiting non-Sonic blogs at all, but then again, irrelevance goes everywhere, and can be potentially annoying.

I understand everything in the amendment. I find it to be reasonable.-- A k  a  m  i  a ( Talk )( Want to see what I've been doing? ) 04:44, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Finally some much-needed support.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 04:54, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Forget the complaining. Let's jsut use the two features and get over this complaining. And i was always agreed --CesarTeamHYRO 05:13, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if that's a good or bad comment, but that's the basic idea: use both instead of one or the other. So you agree with an amendment Cesar?--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 05:15, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Totally agreed --CesarTeamHYRO 05:23, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Kagi, look. We are not cutting out blogs entirely, only a certain type that can be said on the chat. Is that hurting anybody? No. You are saying that it would be hard to see the latest blog post on the Activity, I mean seriously? These blogs make it hard to check people's edits! I have a very hard time because the list is nothing but people bickering around about non-Sonic related topics. Make this wiki look Sonic. Keeping a balance will make our work even harder because people will be talking with complete freedom on any topic in both blogs and chat.--58SlugDrones • (Contact) 11:50, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

And that is why I say "limit, but don't ban".--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 14:09, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

We are limiting. That was the whole point! Non-Sonic discussions in the chat, the rest of the topics can be done in either blog or chat.--58SlugDrones • (Contact) 15:17, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, since you're obviously not getting it, I'll be meticulous: "limit [the non-Sonic blogs], but don't ban [the non-Sonic blogs]". Understand now?--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 16:01, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Got any ideas for that to be possible?--58SlugDrones • (Contact) 17:37, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Oh I don't know, maybe the ideas I suggested when I created this forum?? In other words, Sonic blogs unlimited, personal blogs unlimited (life is life: you never know what will happen when, and should be free to share it), and as for the general non-Sonic blogs: either limited to two created per week for each User, or with the chat acting as another outlet for such discussions, a different limit or no limit at all.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 18:42, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

I would hard to limit the amount of blogs people make per week.  Myself  <font color="Black">123  18:47, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Um.....? Myself, care to repeat? I don't understand the comment.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 19:30, September 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * The point was that there are too many non-Sonic blogs. Nobody really disputes this. We now have fewer non-Sonic blogs, although we had to enable a chat feature to make it happen. Kagi, you would like to make more non-Sonic blogs again. That is going the wrong way. You can tell us you want to reduce non-Sonic blogs all you like, but your suggestion is still going to make more of them. The fact is, I want SNN to be a respected encyclopedia and source of Sonic information; the rest of the internet sees us as a glorified furry social network. I would like to change this perception.
 * As for your specific suggestions, I'm just going to point out that restricting the number of blogs people make is unworkable and that blogs about your schedules and vacations (that is, blogs in which you say "I will not be editing on this wiki during a certain period") are still allowed because they relate to this wiki and not just your personal life. -- Supermorff 19:35, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

The rest of the internet doesn't have the guts to come on here and say it: they just hide on forums and insult us like the Trolls they are. I don't want "more non-Sonic blogs", I just don't want them "banned entirely". Haters are gonna hate Morff: it doesn't matter how much we improve the wiki, people who hate us and hate Sonic in general will continue to see us as a glorified furry social network, because we spend our time on a wiki about something they taunt and/or dislike. What we should focus on is more internal, as in the people who populate this wiki and our affiliates. And by personal blogs, I also mean like "It's my birthday today", "starting school today"; stuff you'd like to get out there, but wouldn't want to constantly repeat to people.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 20:02, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

I meant to say: "It would be hard to limit the amount of blogs per week." Sorry, there's a lot of comments here and it's making my computer run reeeeeeeeeally sloooooooow.  Myself  <font color="Black">123  20:26, September 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Kagi, I think this is just another one of those occasions when I disagree with the very fundamental basis of your argument. I particularly think it's funny that you think only people that hate Sonic hate SNN, but I can tell you that this isn't true. I've been on a fair few Sonic fansites that think we're pretty rubbish because of our focus on blogs and fancharacters and, yes, social networking. Frankly, sometimes, I think we're pretty rubbish for our focus on blogs and fancharacters and social networking.
 * And, yes, I actually know what a personal blog is, thank you. -- Supermorff 20:42, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

I think part of the reason we have a focus on Blogs is because we only have so much information to deal out to the articles. If there is nothing else to add/nothing else known about the subject in the article at this time, then of course we're going to try to find something else to do. As it happens, I find myself like this all the time.-- A k  a  m  i  a ( Talk )( Want to see what I've been doing? ) 21:04, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Bingo. We've got most of the information on the Sonic franchise as-is. Anything we don't have is on M.E. or StC wiki. Without anything to work on, people will of course prefer to socialize.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 21:50, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

To what extent would you like to limit these non-Sonic blogs, Kagi? You might have to make that point clear. What do you think shouldn't be allowed?

Supermorff, I am starting to dislike the chat. Everything is private and so therefore it is hard to judge on who to believe. There have been arguments that I am finding hard to handle because I live in the opposite direction of the U.S. Anybody else?--58SlugDrones • (Contact) 05:30, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

I believe I mentioned that little problem on my blog. And my limit suggestion is stuff like world news and non-Sonic franchises, with blogs about those subjects being limited to only two per week for each User.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 06:48, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

On a little side-note, I am having some freaky problems on the wiki with editing. I can't see any of the icons you'd click to put stuff like bold text or signatures in place. Also, all the multiple edits are on full display, rather than compacted. This is happening both here and Yu-Gi-Oh wiki, and I dunno what's up. So, I'm gonna have a little trouble editing.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 06:55, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

How are users going to be convinced about this solution you speak of?

Also, you might have some browser problems.--58SlugDrones • (Contact) 06:59, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Users against non-Sonic blogs: it's better than having too much stuff on either the chat or the blogs. Use both with some restrictions to distribute the pressure.

Users for non-Sonic blogs: It's either take them back with some limitations, or lose them period. Beggers can't be choosers.

And that might be it, but why is it affecting only two wikis??--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 07:04, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how this solution can reduce the number of blogs as a whole.

Sorry, I am not sure.--58SlugDrones • (Contact) 07:07, September 7, 2011 (UTC)