Thread:Ultrasonic9000/@comment-27441478-20161204050217/@comment-1669199-20161220170347

Ultrasonic9000 wrote:

Genesjs wrote:

Ultrasonic9000 wrote:

NotLessOrEqual wrote:

Ultrasonic9000 wrote:

In short, I do not think small images-turned-large are violating anything and should be deleted as long since their pixel formats are preserved. Some images in regards to a particular subject may be too small for users to easily see, or to even realise what they are looking at. Of course the simple answer would be to have the image cropped and then manually stretched/expanded to make it larger and thus more easy to see. Problem is, this causes image tearing, as the image (for example screenshots from a SegaGenesis in its original format) may not contain enough pixels to fill in the gaps when it is expanded without external support. And when it does, it becomes even MORE pixelated and worse than what it originally was (try this by expanding an image size on Microsoft Paint; its not pretty).

The Resolution upscaling provided by both my monitor and the emulator corrects this by adding more pixels to fill in 'the gaps' left by the stretched pixels in order preserve the format of the image when it is stretched to as close to the original resolution as it can without tearing the image.

In more simpler terms, my high quality smooth line screenshots provided from my end are actually closest to the original format of the game than image shots of those of the games original format which are deliberately stretched without any enhancement or software support to keep the image stable. The closest thing to use to expand an image without pixel tearing or diverting from the original format is probably Adobe Photoshop. Microsoft Pain is a tool common to all user's computers but does a TERRIBLE job of doing it. I am sorry, but regardless of much the images are improved in such manner, it is still not the format they were meant to be in. What you are talking about is altering the images, and the images are supposed to be true to the original depiction. If a person looked, at such a format, he/she would expect it looked like that on the DS, but it would not. I think your desire to keep the original depictions in screenshots preserved to such a degree is, if not unreasonable at this point, than close to it. What good is showing any images on this site then if, especially when technology becomes more advanced and people's average processing power and monitor resolutions continues to increase, it'll not only hamper viewers' ability to clearly see what is being shown in screenshots for games with lower resolutions, but such a problem will continue to worsen over time as new technology eventually becomes standard for most viewers over time, making these low resolution images look smaller and smaller to these people? I understand your desire to be as accurate in depicting these games in their original formats and resolutions as possible -- wanting to be so accurate is something I'd consider noble in other circumstances besides this --, but can you honestly say that you'd still hold on to this line of thinking when it'd eventually become commonplace to hear people complain about some of our screenshots for certain older games being so small that it's next to impossible to see anything clearly without having to modify the images somehow, if not limit themselves to having to play the actual games in order to better see what's in the game? There's also the issue of something like this driving potential regular viewers to other websites which would contain screenshots of the subject matter they are looking for that has been modified to where their monitors/computers could better render and see the images much more clearly and look much larger when compared to our own screenshots.

I repeat, what good is being so true to the original depictions in these games to the degree you are asking for if all it will do in the end is hamper us in the long run, and even get worse over time by virute of the average consumer's access to certain levels of technology increasing over time? Please think about what you're asking us to do, Ultra. I am a little sad to say that I am honestly not concerned with people complaining that the images are small. If they cannot see what is depicted on them, it is their problem, because that can be seen as an opinionated viewpoint when it is suppose to be objective. It is how the format is supposed to be, and I believe firmly that showing the truth is nothing to feel regrets about. However, like I said, I am not against the image being upscaled either as long as the pixel proportions are preserved. It is only right to let the visitors know that the games uses pixel sprites and not something that resembles flash animation.

When I think of other wikias, I can only think of how professional they are by depicting their game screenshots exactly as their animation is. Keeping in their original size is a bonus, but not a must. I know my opinion may seem steely, but I am only following them examples of other wikias and similar sites out there: I am trying to ensure SNN follows the best examples set by different sites.

If I may come with a point though, if the images being too small is the big issue, then why not enlarge them after taking their sceenshot in the old format? You can do that in Powerpoint or even Paint. Just mark what should be enlarged and save it as an image. I do not ask everyone to follow these instructions, but it is just an example of a simple way to enlarge an image in the original format. "If they cannot see what is depicted on them, it is their problem, because that can be seen as an opinionated viewpoint when it is suppose to be objective. It is how the format is supposed to be, and I believe firmly that showing the truth is nothing to feel regrets about."

There's nothing "opinionated" about the fact that the average computer user's technological capabilities will increase over time as currently new technology that allows people to see images in higher resolutions becomes standard across the board. It's inevitable. Currently expensive computer components and accessories will get cheaper to produce over time as they too are eventually replaced by something new and superior, and given how fast technology on average seems to advance these days that really wouldn't take as long as some people would think. Eventually computers that could cost thousands of dollars will eventually lower in price to hundreds of dollars, and lower still as time goes on and new technology becomes standard.

You saying that these viewers who will inevitablty get their hands on better computing technology, either by choice or by neccessity, are going to have to deal with problems over seeing lower resolution screenshots on our website accurately without some form of modification, or through seeking alternative methods to see the content within the games, all because we'd be unwilling to take the necessary steps to ensure that they can actually see all the content we're putting on our articles, will feel like a slap in the face to many of those Users. It wouldn't be fair to them to force them to find other means to look at the content contained within our screenshots when we could easily go the extra mile to get those better quality images ourselves, and not doing so would undoubtedly make us look lazy to these people over time and stop them from even bothering with us in the future. They could even tell their friends and associates about our issues with small screenshots and convince them to do research on the Sonic series elsewhere, because why bother with an online encyclopedia that refuses to evolve it's content where necessary in order to stay relevant to the average viewer?

As for you not being against simply upscaling these lower resolution pictures, I think NotLessOrEqual already adequately explained the issues with this method. Image tearing, jagged lines around sprites/character models/etc., etc.. It may solve the issue of smaller images, but it would undoubtedly cause other issues without some form of modification.

I understand you like the examples set by other Wikis in regards to how they manage their content, but, even though I'm stating the obvious here, I feel the need to point something out: Sonic News Network isn't any of these other Wikis you've mentioned. Just because some things work across the board for these places doesn't necessarily mean they would here. Many Wikis of different series have different audiences with various tastes. Example: Say most viewers who look at one Wiki with the image criteria you're advocating for look at least a minimum of one other additional Wiki, bringing the total Wikis they regularly visit up to 2 (we'll call them Wiki A and Wiki B). For Wiki A, most of their members and readership, for whatever reason, don't mind if their monitors have a hard time looking at certain low resolution images without making said images look awfully tiny. Obviously very few people on this Wiki would complain about this problem because the ones who don't mind are in the majority of members and readers who visit Wiki A.

Wiki B, on the other hand, is where the majority of people who think like Wiki A, are instead the minority instead of the majority. Whatever the majority of Wiki B's regular readership and members' reasons are, they'd prefer to make sure that any screenshots on their Wiki as high quality as possible, regardless of what most people from Wiki A may think. One reason for this could be that the subject matter covered by Wiki B has things like visuals a key selling point behind the subject matter in question (like, say, a game made by developers who wanted to simply create a game that is pretty to look at and, if given the opportunity and resources, would always like to add occassional improvements to the visuals of their game so it looks even prettier as technology advances, because they don't really care about making something stay a certain way but rather seeking to accomplish a certain result by having the most high quality visuals current technology can give them.), in which case it would make sense to Wiki B to make an effort to keep their screenshots as up to date as possible. But obviously most people from Wiki A would take issue with this because they think that having images of the subject matter with it's orignal visuals and resolutions would be more ideal than simply staying up to date since one could make the argument that doing things in this way would make the content depicted on Wiki B look more authentic to the original version of Wiki B's subject matter, a sentiment which in of itself isn't really a bad thing. However, this line of thinking goes against both what the majority of Wiki B's audience thinks, and even what the creators of Wiki B's subject matter thinks in regards to how they'd want their content documented, so as a result Wiki A's line of thinking regarding screenshots in this manner just wouldn't work for Wiki B because Wiki B's very subject matter requires it to stay up to date with as many aspects of it as humanly possible, and at best preserving anything regarding the original version of this content would just be one cog in the machine that is Wiki B, rather than one of the primary focuses.

What I'm ultimately saying is that you shouldn't assume that whatever may work for any of the Wikis you look to for inspiration would necessarily work here, regardless of whatever you may personally think of the methods used by these other Wikis.

On a final note, regarding your suggestion on how to enlarge the screenshots... I don't claim to be an expert on how to properly upscale image files, or really anything for that matter, but wouldn't increasing the images in programs like Paint or Powerpoint just make the images look more blurry the more you enlarge them in these programs? Because I remember that's usually how it worked whenever I increased image sizes this way. If the images got blurry, that would just create a problem that would be noticed all across the image. I would assume most of us would really want that, if that would be the case, because if we wanted to fix an issue like this it would require us to edit out the blurriness of the enlarged images in question, and since you are clearly against modifying screenshots in any way as it would violate your criteria of an ideal screenshot, then this would inevitably put us back at square one.