Forum:Censorship

The language on the pages in question aren't exactly what I would call vulgar. Considering you need to be 13 to legally use wikia, it's rather useless as by that age you should be used to the sort of mild language featured on these pages. So I oppose. 01:48, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Per Free. 01:50, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

It is true that you need to be at least 13 to sign up to wikia, but you do not need to be 13 to visit the website, and as Sonic the Hedgehog is a series aimed at children, children probably visit the site. This is the main reason why we enforce the no swearing rule more so than other wikis. As for the subject at hand, I have often wondered about bringing up the subject of a explicit content banner and whether or not we have any obligation to warn reader about our content here. I'm in favour of creating such a banner.  Myself  123  02:19, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

We really don't need a specific template for minimum of 5 pages, and Sonic games dont really have any vulgar language. It's useless. --You want it with duck or without? 05:53, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

We do have pages like Sonic X and Sonic to the Rescue which contain uncensored vulgar language (Sonic says s*** in the Japanese version of the episode). I'd rather not censor it for accuracy purposes, but it's true that children under 10, for example could be reading this website, and this is a wiki for a franchise aimed at everyone. I often wish people would think of them once in a while. 11:10, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

A good point was brought up by Myself (these jokes are getting old). I would prefer to censor the information, be less specific about cursing (example), or remove the information completely (like we should with "pingas", because the info is pointless anyway). I don't think putting up a banner template would be the best thing to do (seriously, that might even encourage a few kids); instead, a short, bold-texted notice above the section with swearing would be preferable...that is, if none of the three options I mentioned above can be applied to the situation (example: His World's language probably shouldn't be removed or censored due to accuracy purposes). 13:31, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, nothing should be censored as it would lead to inaccuracy. I see your point about the banner encouraging children to seek out these pages. If anything, it's just a warning, like it's use saying "it's there, don't be suprised when you see it", that way, the reader is prepared when it comes up.  Myself  123  16:00, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. If I may add, warnings about profanity are okay, but you can't have too much censorship. Making the trivia less specific, or removing it, is another form of censorship and is even more inaccurate than bowdlerizing the word with asterisks. 16:10, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, younger kids like the ages of five could go on the wiki and read the His World article, which has bad words. I'm not for this, nor am I against it, but I'm neutral on this. Just wanted to point that out. 22:03, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

I oppose. Per FreeSmudger. --- 03:04, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

The banner looks good so far. I don't have any ideas for design alterations, the warning may need to be changed to something a bit more formal, like "This article contains language which may not be suitable for younger readers. If you are offended by such language, do not read further." 20:33, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not bad. I'll go to the sandbox and see if I can fix up the banner's colors. Other users are free to chip in with their own ideas. 20:46, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

I have seen many templates being bland and lifeless at this wiki in my opinion, but now this is really good looking one with frame edges and proper basis. Keep going! - MarioSonic (talk) 21:11, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

I may be a bit late to add my opinion here, but I'm in favor of adding the banner as long as it isn't used as a bypass to the "No Swearing" rule we already have. I just don't want to see people using this banner on their pages which contain vulgar language (I.E. the stuff that is already banned) to protect themselves in the event they get in trouble. I don't see the "Well I warned you guys about the language so I shouldn't be in trouble" clause being a prevalent issue, but it's something that needs to be considered.

As for the choice of graphic, I like the inclusion of the Shadow the Hedgehog logo.-- 21:56, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think a banner is necessary. In fact, I think it's a bad idea. The people you want to "protect" from expletives are not going to be deterred by a banner, especially one as big and loud and attention-grabbing as the one you've designed. You're just highlighting the swearing so that people will be able to find it easier. -- Supermorff (talk) 22:31, April 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Plausible point, although there is still the chance that a person will find the expletives randomly while trawling through articles. With the banner, it will be less of a shock to them, even if it won't prevent them from looking for the words out of curiosity. ^Splash: That didn't make any sense... 22:43, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Per Morff. Hence why I said that even if we make a notice, it shouldn't be a loud, attention-grabbing banner, but a short italicized statement that you would notice if you were to actually read the section or page completely from start to finish. 00:09, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Here is a smaller warning template we can use for each section (it is based off Template:Spoiler):

Mature language Warning : 'This section contains language which may not be suitable for younger readers. If you are offended by such language, do not read further.'

and a end note: Mature language ends here.

BTW i fully support this. 00:56, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

I prefer the new one (by far), but would still rather we didn't flag it up at all. -- Supermorff (talk) 13:59, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

The warning Silver made is much better...almost exactly what I wanted. 14:42, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

I love the new style and I now am in support of this addition so long as this template is used. --- 20:27, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

I had another idea. We could make an in-line template that hides the text unless highlighted. For example:
 * EXPLETIVES. Highlight to see: Swearing

Colour and format can be fixed. -- Supermorff (talk) 21:39, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Really? I didn't think that would be permissible; I haven't seen that method put in place on any other wiki. It's far better than the warning banners we had before; the text-hiding thing is a much more subtle way of letting people know there's disagreeable words on the page. I'll forget the other suggestions if there are no more advantages to them. 22:02, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Morff's suggestion is creative and much more preferable than the other attempts. Per Solace. 13:43, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Censorship is s**t. ...heheh yeah?... yeah?... see what I did there? I'm good. That was hilarious. Genius joke. I shmoppose.

What am I doing on SNN right now? Sorta just decided to annoy everyone for 5 minutes for the first time in like a year.

All hail chest hairs. --Rainbowroad6w, the researcher. ( Talk )([http://youtube.com/user/GCWaves 05:15, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Been lurking for the last few days, but I thought I should post in this.

I personally think all of this is an overreaction. "Damn", "pissed", and.... yeah. Those are literally the only words I recall ever being used that could possibly be referred to as vulgar in any Sonic game. And everyone, let's be honest: those words are used every single day by people old and young alike, and even words much worse. Little kids play M-rated games like Halo and Call of Duty, which involves words that WOULD require some warning. But the fact is, nowadays the boundaries on inappropriate language is much looser than it was before. Yes, Sonic is one of the more kid-friendly franchises out there. Yes, Shadow the Hedgehog was not the most kid-friendly game released for the franchise. But in all honesty like Morff, I don't think any censoring is needed. Little kids are scrolling the internet, some much younger than 13. That's very true. However, it's the responsibility of the parents to monitor what little kids look at on the internet, not ours. Words people our respective ages use every day, or at least as a substitute for words even worse, shouldn't need to be such a big concern in respects to kids who shouldn't even be here in the first place.

Long story short, there's a line where the content is our responsibility, and the viewership is the parents' responsibility. I don't see why we should worry going to such excessive measures over words that nowadays are so completely minor as to be irrelevant. Now if we were talking about words like "s***", "b******", and the like it might be a different matter. But Shadow the Hedgehog was rated "T", not "M". And as I said before, lots of kids even younger than 13 are playing M-Rated games. Do you REALLY think they'll be phased by words like "damn" or "pissed"? And I have to ask: Did Shadow the Hedgehog even use ANY words that could be remotely considered vulgar besides those two? Because if not, then I'm sorry but this whole forum is just silly, going to such measure over TWO WORDS used in ONE game..--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 09:08, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ugh... Firstly, there are at least two pages with s*** on them, so it is a different matter, and they were in the Japanese Sonic X; Shadow the Hedgehog isn't the only culprit. Secondly, you're the one who is overreacting (yet again). We're just warning people, not censoring, so these measures aren't that excessive. Who cares if people these days are more comfortable with those words? There are still many people who aren't, and some of them aren't even children. It's only fair. And your point about it being the parents' responsibility is false, because this website is intended to be read by all ages and parents shouldn't need to have any say if their children are viewing it. We can't just exile them from the site. There are very few bad words on here anyway. Most of your other points are irrelevant. You didn't have to make such a dramatic reply, Kagi. 10:48, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Kagi's post was no more dramatic than the rest of this thread. He wasn't overreacting, just disagreeing with you.
 * How many people here are themselves personally offended by use of the words on this site? Only the people who are personally offended, please, not those who are being offended on behalf of other people.
 * By the way, Shadow the Hedgehog actually got a E10+ rating, not a T and definitely not M. There are plenty of movies with worse language that are rated PG (not PG-13, mind you, but PG). But if those movies had their uses of language flagged up, people would have noticed them and taken offence and given them a higher rating. The whole concept is counter-productive, especially for a neutral encyclopedia reporting the facts.
 * Here's a thought: maybe the fact that Shadow or Sonic or whoever swears isn't actually notable and shouldn't be mentioned on a page at all. Or even if it's worth mentioning somewhere, maybe it's not a good enough reason in itself to add as a quote. -- Supermorff (talk) 12:49, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

In the case of Japanese language, that we chalk up to a difference in values. Or 4Kids taking a show meant for teens and making it into something for kids. Again. But beyond that point, we are an encyclopaedia. I've always said that the community should come first, and I still believe that. However, that shouldn't come at the cost of neutral a neutral viewpoint and accurate content.

The fact that Sonic and others swore in the original Japanese anime is notable, but not in itself. In most anime swearing is commonplace. What makes it notable is that it's one of the many differences between the 4Kids dub and the original uncut anime. The same thing goes for Shadow the Hedgehog; the more liberal language and the very different gameplay are what make it so notable.

You know what most wikis with language such as "s***" do? Nothing. They put it there for it to be read by anyone who comes across the site. Why? Because it's their job to be accurate and neutral, regardless of what it may teach children. And Solace kids of all ages aren't supposed to be on here; this is supposed to be for ages 13 and up. Hell, I didn't even discover it until I was like... 14. So if little kids are learning how to browse the internet and find sites like this, then yes it is the fault of the parents for whatever said kids find. Us? We're a wiki. Our job is to be neutral, and to be accurate. If that means some vulgar language needs to be shown, then that's just how the cookie crumbles. Trust me, the whole language thing is not a big deal. Or need I remind you that kids as young as five play Halo and Call of Duty?--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 17:22, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't care about anime or what kids as young as five are doing. As I may have implied before, we're still showing the language on the page. All we are doing is letting others know that a page contains one or more words that they may not like. It shouldn't be anything more than that. We're staying neutral, we're staying accurate.


 * I won't bother saying anything more, because I'm sick of how others have inflated this issue to be more serious than it needs to be. I wish this discussion was never started, because discussions about swearing and censorship tend to drag on for ages. I saw something like this on another wiki and the page was miles long with drama, hysteria and altercation, and it wasn't even fully resolved. 17:58, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

As I have said before, to me adding a warning or whatever would be to inform anyone who may not want to see such a thing. Kagi you're right that we have no responsibilty to censor or warn, I just thought it wouldn't be out of line to give a "heads up" as it were. I should also also point out that "kids as young as five play Halo and Call of Duty" is a generalisation which I don't think has a point here.  Myself  123  19:38, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Before I completely ignore this wiki again for the next year or so, I would like to say that "pissed" is not a curse word. It's just sort of a more aggressive term used for "pee". Just thought I'd say that. --Rainbowroad6w, the researcher. ( Talk )([http://youtube.com/user/GCWaves 23:58, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a vulgarity.  Myself  123  00:01, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a vulgarity, and perhaps one of the more subjective words with varying opinions on how bad it is. I personally do not feel okay with the word being used here, so the less it is used, the better. 00:03, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, how many people here are, themselves, personally offended by strong language? As opposed to trying to prevent other people from taking offence? -- Supermorff (talk) 13:43, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Agree

 * 13:32, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) TurquiseTH2.png Splash The  Hedgehog  22:11, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 22:12, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 23:10, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Disagree

 * 11:48, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:35, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Supermorff (talk) 13:38, April 9, 2013 (UTC)