Sonic News Network:Requests for User Rights/Kagimizu (Administrator Demotion)

{{Member|Kagimizu was demoted from administrator on 09 August 2013.|archive=

Kagimizu (Demotion) Kagimizu (talk): Contributions Edit Count


 * Please read my statement before you wish to vote.

I nominated Kagimizu for a demotion of his administrator rights. He barely contributes to the wiki, and when he does it is either something about the Featured User interview. He also appears to act immature; he acts like "naggy" at points on forums and will get very angry at users who think there should be another featured user interviewer. He typically is always whining or complaining, especially during Featured User forums. Not only does he not get the Featured User interviews on time, but he also doesn't help the wiki other than make it look outdated and unprofessional for the main page. {{User:BlueSpeeder/Signature}} 17:09, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) As a poser. 17:12, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) I support. His poor attitude has gone on long enough. There have been multiple instances (see Guyviroth) where he has misused his administrator rights. He also brings off-site conflicts to the Sonic News Network regularly, and disrupts wiki activity when doing so. He stunts growth and improvement of the wiki with ridiculous claims such as that we're removing important parts of wiki history. His participation in the community is minuscule, and when he does participate, it isn't exactly positive. His poor reaction to change and criticism disrupt wiki activity. He isn't exactly the best role model for new users. I support his demotion. Sorry, Kags. -- 17:15, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) It's sad to claim that I was the person who started this demotion. Well, I agree with everything Bullet says. Kagi's lack of participation, whiny attitude and picking up arguments too often is enough to say he should'nt be admin. -- Quack Like you mean itundefined  17:25, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Per the poster.
 * 5) Per poster. Sandra the Porcupine  "Either you do or you don't."  21:33, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6) Pacmansonic138 (talk) 21:39, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7) SonicRunPeace.gifMariosonic15  I always race to win! Tailsbye.gif 22:04, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 22:22, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Per Blue -- Murphyshane -  熱! Don't click here   11:12, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) I was thinking about demoting him at one point, but i thought it would be too harsh. After reading what Bullet said, i have to agree. 11:44, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) I have to agree with this demotion. Bullet Francisco once again states my exact thoughts and concerns to the letter. I've known Kagimizu for over 3 years, and from the beginning I've known him as an Administrator on SNN, someone whom I assumed was a role-model for other Users here on the Wiki. With that assumption in mind, I tried to follow his example when I first came here. But unfortunately, the passage of time and being witness to various things both here and on Sonic Fanon Wiki (especially the latter) have changed my once high regard towards Kagimizu, and sadly that opinion hasn't changed for the better in the past couple of years. If anything, going by more recent examples of his questionable, if not outright poor behavior I'm more inclined to think that my opinion of him being a model User on this Wiki, if not several others, has in fact only worsened. His heart is and always was in the right place, I'm certain of that. However, for the longest time I've felt that something needed to be done about him, but like many others, apparently, I too had a bit of a problem that prevented me from speaking my honest mind in its full intensity sooner: I was a tad intimidated by the idea of how me completely opening my mind on his behavior would not only go anywhere and open anyone else's eyes, I also had a feeling that if it didn't go as well as I'd hope that it'd somehow come back to bite me later, although why and how I felt this way is pretty much anyone's guess. I feel ashamed to admit this -- but I take comfort in knowing that I wasn't the only one who, again, apparently feels this way, so perhaps now I won't have to worry about my admittedly irrational fears becoming a reality. I'm sorry Kag, but enough is enough. Lloyd the Cat  "I don't die. I just go on adventures."  22:07, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Forgive me Kagi, but I have to agree with everyone else. Mystic Orb: Who do you think I am?  What do you   want?   What do I do?  23:59, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) Before I joined the wiki, I was looking at everything and noticed he barely edits on this wiki, he waisted all his time on the Sonic Fanon Wiki instead, he hasn't been active on this wiki at all, he was also reported to have a very poor attitude. He acts inmature and childish. He also tends to snap at users too. This is a reson I support this demotion. Applejack294 (talk) 08:30, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6) Kagi's never really active here, there's no point in giving him a job he wont do. He still has adminship on SFW and he's always on there.-- ~♥Snegg♥ Nicolewhite.PNG  15:22, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Because there was a bit of confusion regarding my vote, I would like to further explain why exactly I chose to vote the way I did. Kagimizu's behavior on the wiki has been a longstanding issue here on the Sonic News Network. The behavior problems seem to have started in August 2011, which was around the time the major changes to the Sonic News Network's administration really took place. Now, there were times where I did notice attitude problems before this date. However, I kept my mouth shut because I was afraid. This is the main issue I have with Kagimizu's behavior. He is intimidating. I would like to emphasize the word "intimidate". Kagimizu's behavior and poor attitude on the site are intimidating. There have been countless times, where users, even administrators have been afraid to comment on a site discussion because they were afraid of Kagimizu's response. It should never be like this. Ever. Kagimizu's snappy attitude scares users into not voicing their opinion. It has been like this for two years now, and it is time something is done about it. Someone may say "but he wasn't warned, and he wasn't told!". This may be true, although, Genesjs has informed Kagimizu of his poor behavior various times on site discussion threads of which Genesjs saw Kagimizu's opinion illogical (at least, from my point of view). Regardless of whether he received a warning or not, Kagimizu is to act as a role model and guide for newer users to the wiki. Users who may or may not turn into valuable contributors based on how he acts towards them. If users are scared of him, do you think they want to edit in an environment where the people you are to look to for guidance are both intimidating and often times rude? I know I wouldn't. Kagimizu is supposed to be a mentor, a teacher, a guide. From my point of view, he has been none of those things over my time here (starting from February 2011). From my point of view, he has been a dictator, intimidating, and most importantly, offensive. I have been both Kagimizu's "subordinate" and I have been his "equal" (I am using these words not literally, but for emphasis). Regardless of how I thought of my status as compared to Kagimizu, I have been displeased with his behavior. At this point, I believe I have made it clear that I am displeased with Kagimizu's attitude. Moving on, there have also been times where Kagimizu has made questionable decisions with his administrative tools. He has blocked users such as Guyviroth for no reason, other than the fact that he might "piss him off". Basically, he blocked Guyviroth because he didn't like him. Guyviroth could have been a valuable contributor. It doesn't matter what he did at Sonic Fanon Wiki, and it doesn't matter what he's done anywhere else on the Internet. Guyviroth had the right to edit here. Kagimizu took that way from him. This is just one of a few questionable decisions I have seen made by Kagimizu. Moving on. Going back to what I said earlier, I do not believe Kagimizu should be represented as a guide on this wiki, especially when I feel he does not do an adequate job of following our own guidelines (assuming good faith, practicing open-mindedness and more importantly, being nice). Over time, I've felt that he doesn't follow many of our guidelines, and is thus a poor representative. I feel that he doesn't truly grasp what being an administrator is all about. Like I said earlier, users are afraid of Kagimizu. They have made this clear to me. I will keep said users anonymous in the case that they wish not to reveal their identity, however, when an administrator is feared by users, you know that there is a problem. A problem that I have found difficult to address, because I, too, did not want to get yelled at. Lastly, I would like to mention his lack of contributions to the site and general lack of activity. Although inactivity alone is not a reason for demotion, I believe it contributed significantly in this case. Over the course of the last year, Kagimizu has made a mere 150 edits (unless I counted incorrectly). Those edits have mostly been Kagimizu complaining about change on site discussion threads or user talk pages. Kagimizu claims all the time that he is "busy", and that he will get a chance to be more active later. He also blames other administrators for his lack of activity, and if I recall correctly, even once claimed that there wasn't anything to do on the wiki as a result. There is always something to do. Someone who is supposed to act as a guide should not have that kind of attitude.
 * Summary: Kagimizu's poor attitude towards the wiki and on the wiki (mostly site discussion threads) are unacceptable combined with his intimidating behavior and his sporadic blatant misuse of rights. He brings off-site conflicts onto the Sonic News Network and is constantly making silly excuses for minuscule things. All of this combined with his inactivity and his tendency to be stubborn are enough to warrant a demotion, in my opinion. Now, do not get me wrong, I still believe that Kagimizu was indeed a role model editor. I believe he has made an unacceptable change over the course of the past two years, and a warning or a short would not be sufficient enough to get the point across. His behavior problems over the course of the past two years warrant a demotion, and a warning would have very little impact. Most (like I once was) would be afraid to inform him of his behavior anyways, due to his seemingly intimidating nature. Like I said, Kagimizu was once a good editor, and he has made his share of contributions to the site in the past. I just believe that Kagimizu is no longer suitable to be an administrator. I apologize in advance if any of this offended anyone. I felt it was necessary to express mine (and other's) thoughts on the matter, especially for those who were too afraid to say anything. I do hope that if demoted, Kagimizu decided to stays on the Sonic News Network and contributes positively to the community, because I believe he is still a good user at heart. -- 22:17, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

(sigh) I thank Genesjs for notifying me that this is happening, but I would have liked to have been notified sooner. Before any action is taken, I would like to take the time to read everyone's comments or discussions about this matter so that I can reply in an informed and complete manner. Is that alright with everyone?--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 22:29, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * You can go right ahead and do what you need to do. Mystic Orb: Who do you think I am?   What do you want?   What do I do?  22:32, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * You have every right to respond to everyone's arguments. We're not denying anyone that. If you have a case to make, we'll listen to it and discuss it with you in a civil manner. Lloyd the Cat  "I don't die. I just go on adventures."  22:40, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, to discuss first the biggest thorn in my side... the ban of Guyviroth. You see, the matter of Guyviroth is a very long, very infuriating, and very stressful matter for me. Especially since every time I think the matter is done and dead, it comes back in some form or another.

You see, Guyviroth was a veteran User on the Sonic Fanon Wiki. He was very popular and very influential, and at one point became an admin. Originally he and I started off on a positive note when I called out the then-admins about behavior towards banned Users, Guy and I quickly turned to dislike each other because we had drastically differing views on how the wiki should be dealt with. You see, during my time originally on the Sonic News Network I learned the philosophy that the admins aren't "special" or "higher ranked"; they're merely given the means to maintain and protect the wiki, and are given such power by the votes of the community. When I joined the Sonic Fanon Wiki, it was run quite differently. Admins decided everything and the Users didn't have any say in the matters or direction of the wiki. And that was how Guyviroth believed wikis should be run; the admins decided everything and the opinions of the Users didn't mean s***

What's more, Guyviroth was very well-known if not downright infamous for a very abrasive and harsh attitude to anyone he didn't like or who didn't meet his standards. Over time his intimidating personality and volatile demeanor got him demoted from adminship, and I later took his place. Despite this Guy persisted on the wiki and was often either the cause of or very much involved in any strife or conflict that occurred on Sonic Fanon Wiki, which would almost always lead to fights so big they threatened to tear the wiki apart. Fights that I was often just as much a part of and responsible for in my desire to stop Guyviroth from doing damage.

You may be asking how such a User was allowed to persist on the wiki for so long. The matter of the fact is, Guyviroth was very, very good with his words. He could twist truths and facts to make himself or his stance as sympathetic as possible and convince people to sway in his favor. It was through this that whenever he was banned he would slip through, by going around to another admin to convince them to unban him and fight for him. If that didn't work, he would outright harass or intimidate an admin into unbanning him. The only way Guyviroth was finally and permanently banned was through the discussion and involvement of all the then-active admins, so that everyone was aware Guyviroth was to be permanently banned and left that way.

The reason I banned Guyviroth on this wiki is because the Sonic News Network is on of the first places he would go as a means to bug or harass the Sonic Fanon Wiki. It is also my personal belief that because he and I clashed so many times and it is very public knowledge that I deeply care about this wiki, Guyviroth would come here whenever he was banned on Sonic Fanon Wiki in order to stir up trouble and spite me. Some of his actions included running for adminship despite next to no activity on this wiki, and also made a blog concerning one of his bans so as to stir up SNN Users to sympathize with him and possibly even get involved. In short, Guyviroth repeatedly would bring Sonic Fanon Wiki troubles to the Sonic News Network.

Because of this, when Guyviroth was permanently banned on the Sonic Fanon Wiki via group admin decision, one of the first things I did afterwards was to ban him on this wiki as well. The reason for that was because I all but knew that one of the first things he would try to do was try to bring this trouble to the Sonic News Network. I refused to allow that to happen once again, and as such I banned him.

I won't lie: my relationship with Guyviroth is a very personal and even more so volatile one. While I like to say that I have never intentionally or consciously used my adminship prowess in a biased or prejudiced manner, any attempts to say such involving Guyviroth is a very difficult matter to sell to anyone. However, I can say this much: it is very true that I banned Guyviroth so that he could no longer "piss me off". But the means in which he pissed me off was by bringing Sonic Fanon Wiki drama and conflict to this wiki and getting involved in the wiki solely as a means to irritate and/or spite me.

To hopefully erase any doubts about the type of person Guyviroth is, a few months after his ban Guyviroth made a sockpuppet account named Shousenka. Passing himself off as "Guyviroth's IRL friend", "Shousenka" would repeatedly preach Guyviroth's case in a means to get himself unbanned and generally act only slightly less volatile than before. He even made a second sockpuppet for a character creation so as to be involved in an RP tournament, and when he was given a temporary "parole" by a 'crat known as Memphis the light, he dropped the second sockpuppet and "adopted" the character he made. During that parole, Guyviroth made a "confidence/corruption call" against me due to my behavior against Shousenka, his sockpuppet account. With a very small number of votes that could have been nullfied with two votes in my favor, I was demoted. Eventually Guy violated his parole by once again harassing me, and was re-banned. Some time later, while it had been long suspected but never acted on, Guyviroth revealed that Shousenka was indeed a sockpuppet, which was quickly banned. A thread was made soon afterwards to discuss the matter of my demotion, where Guyviroth once again made a sockpuppet account known as InMemorium in order to defend himself. It was only after Wikia Staff banned Guyviroth's very IP address that he was removed from the wiki, and even then I often check for signs that he's made another account to cause further trouble.

I do hope this explains the matter of Guyviroth's banning on this wiki. To my knowledge and memeory I have never banned anyone on this wiki under terms that people would find questionable or corrupt, and I do hope that people see this is no exception to that description. My actions against Guyviroth could undoubtedly be seen as biased, prejudiced, and corrupt, I fully understand that. However, my actions were solely because I am very much aware of the type of person Guyviroth is, and were a means of being thorough and making sure his final ban stuck. To do that, I had to make sure he couldn't harass any SFW members via SNN or bring SFW trouble to this wiki.

Now, I would to go into the other matters that people have brought up in terms of my attitude and treatment of others, but as I said before I wanted to pull out the biggest thorn first. Guyviroth both as a person and as a discussion subject is very stressful and frustrating for me, and I hope that upon reading this everyone understands why that is the case. If possible, I would very much like to keep the discussion of Guyviroth very short and simple. In my experience, simply bringing him up as a subject has caused nothing but strife and turmoil. For me personally, especially. I understand that this is undoubtedly a very selfish request, but I would like it if this wish could be respected.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 23:17, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

SUMMARY: Guyviroth is not a nice person, and has repeatedly used this wiki as a means to harass Sonic Fanon Wiki admins, myself included. My ban against him was a means to prevent him from using this wiki in such a way any further. My conflict with Guyviroth has been a very long and very volatile one, and I would prefer to keep further discussion of both the person and the subject to a minimum so as to avoid strife and turmoil in favor of discussing the other matters brought up. I know this is a selfish request, but I would like it if my wishes could be respected in this matter.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 23:21, July 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * While I personally feel that a little additional prespective on the other side(s) of this story would give everyone else something better to work with, even if you can convince us that you were in the right in banning Guyviroth from SNN (I still don't believe that, just to be clear), there's still the other concerns that others here have addressed regarding your general behavior around the Wiki that, I'm sure (correct me if I'm wrong), many here feels is still enough to warrant a demotion. While you took the time to give a decent essay over your side of the story regarding your questionable banning of Guyviroth, you haven't really gotten into the other problems with you that many of us feel should be dealt with. Do you have anything to say about these other concerns of ours? Lloyd the Cat  "I don't die. I just go on adventures."  22:40, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

I fully intend to address the other matters brought up. While I do feel that Bullet's description exaggerates or misinterprets various aspects of my behavior, I do intend to address the matters everyone has. However, over the last three or four years Guyviroth has caused me no end of grief and turmoil, even when banned from and not involved with the site (like in this case). Because of our long-standing conflict and the fact that his ban seemed to be the most prevalent aspect of Bullet's argument, I wanted to address that issue first and foremost. As I said before, pull out the biggest thorn first.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 22:56, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

I was kind of expecting other people to acknowledge and comment on this matter. I realize I asked to keep the Guy discussion to a minimum, but I would like to know that this isn't falling on deaf ears. If there's nothing left to discuss on the matter though, what should be discussed next? What's the biggest problem people have with me? I'm all ears.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 02:14, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * The biggest problem I see is your attitude. It's not one a good administrator should have. -- Shadowunleashed13 (talk) 15:04, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Yes well, I've been made well aware that as of late I haven't made the best impression on many Users. Unfortunately, that's largely been the case because of my lack of activity and external situations. Most of the time I'm involved it involves site discussions about Featured User interviews, be it complaints about my capabilities, changes to its format, or outright removing it. And every single time, I don't recall anyone thinking or outright saying "Hey, maintaining Featured User is Kagimizu's job. We should tell him about this so he knows what's going on." Because of that, I always end up very frustrated and irate, because it feels like I'm being disregarded or left out of the loop. I know I can simply check the main page, but the fact is Featured User is, for better or worse, my responsibility. I should be directly involved in any discussions about it, and when people continuously leave me out of discussions over my job, I get very upset.

Beyond that specific aspect, there's also the matter that this Summer has been.... both very eventful and very personal for me. It's all happened so suddenly that it seems to be such a blur, and I can't even remember it all right now. However, I was able to relay most of my troubles to both Genesjs and Bullet, so I do hope that they can relay that information. The most significant aspect however, has been issues involving my pet dog J.R. We took him to the vet several weeks ago after much insistence on my part, and got a great deal of troubling news in regards to his health. Namely, nerve degradation in his hind legs and high blood values in his heart and adrenal glands, all of which bring into question just how much longer J.R. will be with me and my family. Having been part of my life since May of 2003, it's quite a big impact to say the least. SNN is very important to me despite my lack of activity, but many other things go on in my life; pick a moment in time where my attitude stuck out as particularly foul and I can probably explain what was going on.

I haven't left a very good impression on new Users, but older Users should be well aware that I am not by nature a foul, abrasive person who looks to intimidate people. Quite the contrary after my aforementioned dealings with Guy, people like that are ones I hate the most. But nonetheless, I apologize for my personal problems getting in the way of my responsibilities as an admin, which includes being a role model for new Users.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 09:43, August 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Aren't you guys acting like it is the end of the road for Kagi and the climax of his life? I don't see why this demotion is turning into 'this' big of a deal. -- Quack Like you mean itundefined  10:55, August 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * I am leaving this nomination open for an extended period of time. Kagimizu seems to feel the time he has had to defend himself was insufficient. Because he was notified of the nomination a bit later than he should have been, I kindly request that my fellow bureaucrats leave this demotion request open until at least August 9th. This should give Kagimizu the time he needs. Thank you. -- 15:10, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

@Applejack and Mewkat: For your information, I do not spend all of my time on Sonic Fanon Wiki. When I did, it was because Sonic Fanon Wiki was in worse shape in and needed more help than the Sonic News Network, which has multiple competent and very capable admins on the site as-is. What's more, since it seems neither of you took the time to read the explanation I took well over an hour to type up; I lost my adminship several months ago due to the machinations of Guyviroth and his sockpuppet account Shousenka, calling a "Confidence Call" on me because of my behavior towards "Shousenka" when Guy kept using the Shousenka account to try and argue his case and get himself unbanned.

I'm trying to prove that I'm not the tyrannical, short-tempered, and prejudiced dictator people seem to think I am. But if you are going to vote on whether or not I deserve to keep a job I have had since 2009- since before I even joined Sonic Fanon Wiki- then I would very much like it if you could at least respect me enough to take the time and read my defense before actually making your votes. I apologize if I'm coming off as short-tempered, but I honestly must question the neutrality of both Applejack and Mewkat, whose votes are based on inaccurate information.

And Quack: While losing adminship won't be the end of my life or anything, I've had adminship since 2009 and I don't want to lose it if I can help it. And it's a big deal to me because a great deal of the information Bullet gave is misinterpretation of my previous comments and impressions taken when I was acting on anything BUT my best behavior due to mitigating factors. I don't want to lose my adminship in such a manner.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 00:05, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion

 * Demoted - I'm afraid consensus is indeed in favor of your demotion, Kagimizu. I've removed your administrator rights. You are free to renominate yourself at any time. This discussion will be archived and removed shortly. -- 02:20, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

}}