Forum:Interfaith disscussions

--The Chosen One of Water 01:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)--The Chosen One of Water 14:25, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Mystic?!The Chosen One of Fire 01:59, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes? What is it?--Mystic Monkey 21:52, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Prepare to turn monotheistic.The Chosen One of Fire 22:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You already "lost". I may not have a god, but I have "faith" and I believe in myself. Incidentally ,though I believe in the long run religion is silly (Whether past or future), I won't bother trying to change anyones beliefs. Unless by you challenging me to "Monotheism" you are threatened by the fact I could be "correct".--Mystic Monkey 22:17, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

i thought you'd be all for this, you defy human psychology. The Chosen One of Fire 00:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * How can you say I defy Human Psychology when you limit your psychology to testimonies?--Mystic Monkey 21:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey mystic, im fire's cousin, i've been to alot of interfaith discussions, and have dealt with a wide variation of religions, including zorastorian. I've also chatted with a few athiests and i was able to turn a couple of the to belive there is a god. I just want to lay out one question: Why do you chose to belive in no god? The Chosen One of Water 10:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Before I answer my question, what I wanna know is: Why do you believe in God? (I presume God but if not, then the answer is still valid for whatever moves you.)--Mystic Monkey 21:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I beleive in god for many reasons, the most common is because of the miracles around us. For example, we are located in the perfect place, if we were a planet further up we would burn up, and if we were back one than we would freeze to death. this is definitley not something coincendential. I will state more reasons as we deepen in this discussion, but for now, please answer my question. BTW, you have a cool user page. Thank you. --The Chosen One of Water 23:21, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe it is coincidental since how can you say it is not without an aliens oppinion? Also life is being proven on other planets such as AH84001 meteorite which is believed to come from Mars. This makes sense as Mars do have Polar Icecaps and icecaps are made of ater which support life (Im sure the Chosen One of Water has heard of the old saying that "Water is the Essence of Life" or something like that.) Not to mention other ice-based planets in our Solar System like Pluto. Sure Pluto by possition and apperance may seem a dead hope for life, but due to the fact it's core consist mostly of water and silicate. Silicate being a type of rock and water obviously means Pluto must have an active core. Water+Heat=Life. In other words there maybe marine type Plutonians we are not aware of yet. Now even though I just have theories of other life and no better evidense to flat out proove of aliens, there has been visits that the government are too afraid to let out (This is due to mass hysteria since religion and politics are BBFL and cannot work without the other), but still Aliens sitings in UK has doubled which means that there is life beyond our planet...


 * Despite the bible saying that mans and the animals of Earth are the only life forms in existance. This is just one of many errors that contradict the bible as well as other religions that believe that Humans are #1. Another reason why I don't believe in any god is because I am not dependant on them. Why is it that when someone achieve an acomplishment they thank "God" when not realising it was themselves alone that have granted achievement? So the reason why I don't believe in God is because there is no solid evidense to support him, the bible is full of contradictions and I know that whether I fail or sucseed it will be my achievement, I have no one else to thank for except people who were present and involved with my tasks.--Mystic Monkey 23:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

you seem to have taken a veiw that i am a christian. I would like to correct you and say that i am a muslim, as is the other guy. I do beleive in aliens however, because one of our holiest men has said: On the day of judgment, allah (god) Will bring forth everyone on this planet, and the ones to be discovered. Note that this was narrated 1400 years ago at the time of the prophet, and the planet thing is not the only reason i believe in god. Now if you do not mind telling me: In your theories, how did the universe come to be?
 * Coulda told me earlier to prevent mix up. >_<


 * Dunno why thats question is important but if you insist. Im not sure of the details myself, I even doubt the Big Bang theory but most good things around this universe start with a good explosion so Id say the origin of the Universe is a huge supernova and the dust kept bumping into each other causing static. These particles attracted and formed clumps, these statically charged clumps came together to form magnetic compounds, these magnetic compounds form together to form planets with desity etc. Also Scientist believe that at the center of the universe is a Black Hole. Incidentally, the reason why I consider this question not that important is that I believe that the answer is too early for religion, science or other to say so there can be many theories to the creation of the Universe. One theory Terry Prattchet wrote:
 * Things just happened, what the hell?--Didactylos 01:02, 21 February 2009
 * Eitherway I doubt Earth alone was made in under a week, especially since time wasn't really invented (Religious wise) at the moment, unless you believe that God has a weakness of "time" itself.--Mystic Monkey 01:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry bout that, Anyways what i was trying to prove to you by asking that is that time was not invented. It was created by god. God has been there before the beginning of time. It's just one of those things that the brain can't comprehend. I see you are someone with a great personality, (but in my views, a misguided heart)So i want to clear up that you have your beleifs as do i, and we are not trying to convert eachother here, but trying to open up and express our opinions. Although fire may have a different view than me,I stand by what i say. Let us as sonic fans, except when in this forum, put aside our differences and befriend eachother. Thank You. --The Chosen One of Water 01:25, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's all cool since it's overcomming disagreements that make friendship.--Mystic Monkey 01:38, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm with water, religoin and opinion wise, i just said that first part because waterb is very diplomatic and has converted many people.The Chosen One of Fire 01:42, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well still you did blurt out "Prepare to be Monolithical" over the fact I am Atheist, Id say you did try to convert me than to simply respect the fact 'I don't believe'. Eitherway despite being uncomfortable with Waters "Methods" (Converting many?) I just leave it be, despite the many contradictions he made in his reply to my answers I just don't pick at it too much to make unneccisary enemies. After all it's not just about Sonic, we are both Humans living on this planet so might as well get along.--Mystic Monkey 02:28, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

by the way mystic, please check out my user page under fandom pictures, with your permission i made a tribute to mystic monkey. I just want permission to post it. PLZ check it out--The Chosen One of Water 02:37, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, I don't mind, I'll add it to my fan art gallery.--Mystic Monkey 03:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind some more, and i'm not trying to be a pest, a suck up, an annoying fan, or anything of that sort, but because of your great descriptions of Mystic's forms, i took the liberty of making both of them and posting them on my user page. If you don't like them i can remove them. Thank you so much, and we were all lucky to have became friends in such a short period of time, --The Chosen One of Water 04:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's OK for trying to draw Holy and Evil Mystic. I may not believe in religion but it has interesting reference mateials for my fiction.--Mystic Monkey 00:36, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

hahahahahahaha--The Chosen One of Water 12:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * lol--Mystic Monkey 00:36, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree. now about evolution...just kidding!!!The Chosen One of Fire 12:24, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I view Christianity as big, as I am one, but I'm good friends with Aeithists and even a Muslim. And don't you guys go all crusades on me, as I know we have different views on religion, I belive that friendship is more than that. Flashfire212 06:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

we were just saying that, that's why i held the debate.The Chosen One of Fire 12:23, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

rofl flash, don't worry, none of us is salahieddein al-ayoubi :P, this was just meant to be a friendly discussion.--The Chosen One of Water 13:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's nice to be on a forum that has not banned religious discussion because of arguments.--Mystic Monkey 17:54, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

that and nonstereotypical people.The Chosen One of Fire 19:03, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll tell you this; I am a strong Catholic, as I've stated in some other threads. I have lots of friends that are atheist and stuff. And thats fine, believe what you want to believe. However, I believe that whoever does not have some sort of faith in God is on the wrong path. I have numerous reasons that I believe in God, and I can write pagefuls on why God is real and why we should worship him in all that we do, but, I won't force that upon you because I believe in free will. So, whoever is trying to force someone to convert is foolish; conversion involves free will and faith, both of which cannot be forced upon someone. HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog 00:31, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Chosen Fire dude?! I'M GONNA BUST YOUR NECK(IN MY DREAMS)FOR NOT CARING FOR CHRISTIANITY!!! You don't, right? S.H. 05:52 PM, 27 February 2009 (UTC) P.S.  I was just kidding about busting your neck, but believe in Christ, please! Believe he died on the cross for OUR sins! Then you'll be in HEAVEN for eternity!!! OR if you don't, you'll be ing HELL for eternity!!! But don't feel pushed, though. Do what you want...BUT I'M WARNING YOU!!!

that's very christian, do what i say or i'll hurt you.  Myself 123  23:56, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

If you're pretty much saying, "bow down to me," I'm not gonna do it. S.H. 6:37 PM, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

that's not what i'm saying, i was putting what you said in a nutshell (acturley, it's a family guy quote).  Myself 123  00:40, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

hahahahahahahahahahaha...no I don't watch that crap so i don't know. S.H. 07:03 PM, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

GASP!!! BLASTOMY!!!  Myself 123  01:07, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Easy there guys, its a lot harder to go to hell then one may think. In order to go to hell, one must be in a state of unrepented mortal sin. A mortal sin involves 3 things. Number 1: Grave Matter. Grave Matter refers to a serious offence against God, such as killing, or committing adultery. The second thing is Full Knowledge. Full Knowledge refers to knowing that what you are doing is a serious sin, and for it to be a mortal sin, you must know it is serious. The final thing to make a mortal sin is Full Consent. You must completely agree with what you are doing, know its a grave matter, have full knowledge of what you are doing, and completly agree with it. Then it is a mortal sin. Die in a state of unrepented mortal sin, and your done. However, if at any time before you die, you repent the sin, in anyway, like, by truelly feeling sorry and saying it to God in that split second before you die - and thoughts are fasts, God won't miss it - you will be forgiven. Thats why God is so merciful. It take a fair bit to go to hell, but remember, if you don't repent a mortal sin, it means you weren't sorry for it; God respects our free will so much that he lets us pick our own path, and so, when he sends us to hell, its not because He wants it, its because we want it, shown by our actions. HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog 02:49, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

let me get this straight, you can be the biggest badass in history, but if you repent at the last minute you go to heaven?  Myself 123  02:55, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Its tough to accept, but in a nutshell, yes. There are plenty of circumstances behind it though, like, for 1, if your the biggest badass in history, and then you repent before you die, what is the reason? Are you truely sorry, or just doing it to get out of going to hell? You don't get past God that easily. He'll be able to tell the truth, make no mistake. But, say they are truely sorry, for the right reason, then they won't be sent to hell... rather, they will go to purgatory, where they will undergo the relitivly painful process of purification, and because of the magnitude of their crimes, they'll be spending some serious time there. Don't worry, God has thought of everything, He gives people what they deserve, remember? HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog 03:02, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

i gree with hyper, and as we belive in islamic laws, god will be just. if you truely repent from all of your heart, god will forgive you, on the dealwhere it shall truely never be done again. howver, there is a saying in islam "If one commmits adultery and repents, god forgives him, but only from his heart.--The Chosen One of Water 03:05, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Sweet. Our religions aren't totally too different, are they? HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog 03:07, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

yeah, ironicly in the quran it mentions that what has been stated in the bible and torah has been stated in the quran. so its cool that we are able to take a tand thu the same views :)--The Chosen One of Water 03:10, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Amen, HyperSuperSonic dude! Amen! S.H. 10:47 AM, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh right, i get it now. seems fair, though i don't belive in god i do belive in second chances.  Myself 123  19:11, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The reason I don't go through "Grave Matter" because I have my own conscious and responsability, I don't need a god telling me that killing people is stupid. "Full Knowledge" is more about the consequences of your living self than the afterlife VIP lounge. As for "Full Content" then that means it's the persons choice and best back away from them.--Mystic Monkey 22:31, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, well if you don't believe in God, just please tell me that you don't believe in Evolution. S.H. 08:15 AM, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

yes i do belive in evolution, (you were talking to me right?).  Myself 123  17:48, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I won't tell you I don't believe in Evolution... I know Evolution exist and unlike religion I have evidense. Animals understanding the concepts of tools, like using a stick for fishing or picking ants as well as plants trying to adapt to our polluted atmosphere as well as the odd mutation now and again such as people with extra limbs or such or being Albino, even evidense you can find in your own garden. We humans are evolving by the use of machines and vehicals. Sure we were not born with machines and vehicals, but we built them ourselves and depend on them to extend our biological limits, animals would see a car as a large armored creature with us as it's mind, it won't be long since we will be able to guide our own line of evolution with technology. This is called the singularity. Id rather be more human than human.--Mystic Monkey 20:23, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

True, true.  Myself 123  23:12, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

i believe in evolution, but only to a certain extent.The Chosen One of Fire 13:19, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Listen, everything with a beginning has a cause! So you can't just believe in evolution and then say a house just popped up on Venus 30 million years ago. Somebody had to build it. Had to. Here's another one, Myself 123. If a man comes out of the water, originally a fish(and most evolutionists think that if something evolves, it has to take years and years to turn into the thing it was going to evolve into),what does the man have when he comes out of the water? Lungs, or gills? Answer that, and don't be goofy. S.H. 02:28 PM, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

but how did the fish become a man.The Chosen One of Fire 19:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

err... what do you mean?  Myself 123  20:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Think about it. Some evolutionists believe we evolved from something. And what if they think we evolved from a fish? When the fish comes out of the water and evolves from fish to man, what does he have? Gills or lungs? Remember that most evolutionists believe it took a long time for something to evolve into another thing. S.H. 03:22 PM, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

well. it wasn't exactly fish to man, we were apes first, i think that lungs evolved as they were more useful for being on land.  Myself 123  20:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * My guess (Just a guess) most species on our planet started out as amphibians. Evidense is that they go through a metamorphesis state from young water breathing kids to air breathing adults. this supports the common theory that life comes from the ocean. Not only that but Amphibian lay soft eggs. While mammals such as the human does not lay eggs, the embryo does resemble an amphibian egg as well as fetuses starting off fish like with gills. Also note that Amphibians are cold blooded so it's possible that before reptiles and mammals there were amphibians that split up into 2 and more (birds) types of life. The only life I can't say started out as Amphibians is plants which took a totally different direction when starting out as single cell organisms. This theory of amphibians splitting into different types of animals is also evident through the Axolotle which are native to the Mexican lake Chalco. The Axolotl is an exclusively aquatic salamander and in 1863, French Zooligist Auguste Duméril recieved a shipment of Axolotleonly to discovered they have changed into a previously unknown form of terrestrial salamander. Turns out the Axotole is an under-developed Salamander that ditched it's adult form in favour of it's aquatic features unless left under certain conditions to adapt to the land. Neoteny a sit called where the Salamanders prefer to swim than to walk. Julian Huxley later repeated the experement and his brother Aldous written a story on humans also being Neotenous Juveniles on a man becoming a 200 year old ape.--Mystic Monkey 21:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Myself 123, I'm not asking you about evolution-type history. I'm just asking you, what did we have when we came out of the water? Gills or lungs??? And you can't have gills to breath in the air, so if he came out of the water with gills and had to have time to develop lungs, he would eventually die, right? S.H. 05:27 PM, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

it was Mystic who wrote that, at a guess fish probily tried going out of the water onto the land and yeah they probily couldn't breathe so my guess is that they evolved into amphibions so they could breathe. The main idea of evolution is that species adapted to new lanscapes and to be more more efficiant and surive.  Myself 123  22:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if it's any constellation, as mentioned human fetus around when they are the size of a bean, they have gills! And yeah SH has a point. this is where selective breeding comes in. The longer you can stay out of the water, the more sexier that fish is so that breathing concept would be extended every generation. But I have a feeling you skipped my notes on the relations amphibians have to us and my talk on Axolot's. Amphibians are born in water and grow to live on land. Now have any of you heard an expecting mother shout "My water broke!" Thats right, we were born in water, it's reason why babies are instinctive to hold there breaths the moment they touch water inyet some of us fear the water to go under. More evidense to the fact Mammals, like humans were once amphibians.--Mystic Monkey 00:29, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

But God made everything. Remember, everything with a beginning has a cause. Remember the short story I made up about a house on Venus? If you traveled there and saw the house and no one was there, if you're an evolutionist you probably just out of thin air say, "this house appeared by so and so 30 million years ago." That's not, NOT possible! Everything with a beginning has a cause. Something or someone had to cause that house to be there. S.H. 07:49 PM, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, as an Evolutionist, or any evolutionist will not say the house just "evolved" there. Of course someone built the house and simply left it alone on Venus. That someone was obviously a mortal being and not a god or the God or else why is no one alive in the house? Incidentally the materials of the house would be natual, yet hand/tenticle or whatever made but what those house is made out of probably natually form on Venus or shipped in from another planet if the alien tennants had the power to leave Venus (not leave as gods) but either extinction or through space vessle. Your theory of a house on Venus, though just a story, is really just a story and no solid evidense to support the existance of God. Incidentally if your story was true, it is proof of evolution: That life was on Venus and it's intellect grew to that someone built a house and probably lived in it, died or left the planet which is part of the cycle of life and evolution (Whether evolved or died natually or artificially). Extinction or global departure.--Mystic Monkey 18:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

i must say, i agree with the guy, but at the same time, like i said,to a certain extent. ask me what is this extent.The Chosen One of Fire 01:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Well if you don't believe in the bible, how can you believe in a science book you've read? What's the difference. S.H. 03:40 PM, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, you make a good point. I'm not an atheist because i choose a science book over a holy book, if somone told me that God exists, but dosen't care about us or do anything then i'll belive it.  Myself 123  20:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The difference is the bible is written by what people believe while Science books are written by people who actually tested and prooved as well as some science book teaching how to "experement" while the bibles teachings are just said recorded events that cannot be proven and thus without solid evidense. Im not saying the bible is full of lies, since even science has prooven that there was once men like Moses and Jesus, but science has proven that there miracles arn't the work of God. Moses plagues were actually volcanic activity and Jesus could of been a doctor or a knew magic tricks... or both making illusions while he healed!--Mystic Monkey 00:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Then how could volcanic eruptions happen at a perfect time when Moses sent the plagues? What's the evidence on that??? S.H. 07:33 PM, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you insist, I started a small explanation but turns out Wikipedia can explain better than I can. National Geographic did a small series of shows on this as well. I can fetch it on YouTube if you wish. Eitherway both Wikipedia and NG prooves volcanic activity. And whos to say Moses knew about it as well and said it was God? Just to get the pharoh to do what he needed. Sure for a good cause but still Moses probably just knew.--Mystic Monkey 00:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Again...everything with a beginning has a cause! It couldn't have just happened! Moses called on God and it happened! Moses didn't just stand there and then suddenly "boom" there goes a volcano! S.H. 08:32 PM, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats because the plagues were the signs, thats how Moses knew, God didn't tell him (In fact he was alone with what he claims a talking burning bush so it's his word alone to everyone outside) Also note that volcanic activity happens mostly around the equator (near the Ring of Fire) whos to say Moses never had prior experiances of volcanic activity and what happens before and during the action? Also take note that at times Moses was alone with no one actually there to confirm him. For example he went alone to see a burning bush, the fact of a bush burning in a cave could be a sure sign of volcanic activity or that the burning bush looks like a volcano which means Moses knew something. The plagues were in fact signs of the catastrophies of the volcano which means he knew it was happening and claimed it was all power of god in order to scare the Egyptians. This is another example of "coincidence" which he used and got lucky... or atleast lucky than coincidense because he used the scare of the volcano to his advantage.--Mystic Monkey 18:36, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Mystic man, I am a muslim and can answer many of your questions. First that way to much of a coincidence as moses was trying to convince people of god and "got lucky" with wat happened. O, and by the way NO PIZZA FOR U!!!!! The Chosen One of Psychic 11:05, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Evolutionists believe that a big bang happened at the very beginning of the world. No offense to the evolutionists here, but that's stupid! You can't just have a little bubble blow up and then get a perfect set of the universe! That's silly! S.H. 7:54 AM, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

technically, that happened and not just evolutionists believe that.The Chosen One of Fire 13:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

hold on fire, u expressed the true point, but left this out: we as muslims beleive in the big bang and how it created the perfect universe, YET it was gods power that caused that--The Chosen One of Water 13:43, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

exactly. well...not exactly. the big bang never happened, but God did create the universe. In Genesis it says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." --S.H. 14:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

"Oftentimes, when a person is asked what God made on day one of the Creation week, he responds by saying simply, “God made light.” When young people sing the “Days of Creation” song (where each verse in the song corresponds with what God did during each day of the Creation week), the first verse they sing is: “Day one, day one, God made light when there was none.” Both of these statements are true. Genesis 1:3-5 states: then god said: let there be light!" uh-oh! contradictions!!!!--The Chosen One of Water 14:25, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not all Atheist and Evolutionist believe in the Big Bang theory, even I am not sure about it, they just believe thats a more reasonable and logical choice than a God doing so but more research is being done as we speak (That and something is always blowing up in space). Im interested to notice your all beggining to see the contradictions you have not realised in your own religions. Just so you know though I encourage Atheism and independant thinking, all I have been doing is answering questions, thats all I have been doing. The contradictions I have pointed out are through careful thought just as you would do to defend your religion. As for Moses, well, sure his timing was impeckable but have you consider it to be a story written by some guy who witness the volcano and said "God's pissed!" and perhaps saw some guy names Moses and thought he had something to do with it. Like from the Monty Python movie Life of Brian, the people were stupid enough to follow Brian, make up wonderful stories about him when Brian didn't want the attention at all. Moses could of been some guy who was there at the right time and people thought he was in control while Moses was there for the ride.
 * As of God did create everything... why?--Mystic Monkey 15:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not givin' up on God! No christian should give up on their belief! S.H. 12:56 PM, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

if that is towards mystic, than i compliment you on your strong beilief. No one who belives in a god, chrisitian or muslim or jew or buddist or whatever should ever give up on god. if that was directed towards me, i would like to say i am not suggesting you give up ur faith, but implying that the bible has contradicitons in it due to how many times it has been changed. I know open up the doors of Imbracing Islam, for you will find No contradicion in the quran, (and if you DO mange to find one, I promise i will become chrisitan) i am not forcing you to d anything, yet it is as something on chrisitians to spread the "good news" muslims must open up the doors of conversion.--The Chosen One of Water 18:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, not trying to convert anyone. Just answering questions. Quren?--Mystic Monkey 23:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

quran koran quren just like the jews have the torh and christians thebibly, muslims have the holy quran.... kindoff Duh....--The Chosen One of Water 01:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Im already seeing contradictions, even checking up more on this Quren. But before I pick at it, Im considering denying religious discussion. I do enjoy anice friendly debate but sometimes it esculates.--Mystic Monkey 14:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

no, please do say any contradictions you find so i can clarify them, that is part of my religion, and everything here is friendly. NOW TELL ME OR DIE!!!!!! jk--The Chosen One of Water 23:27, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

very muslim, tell someone to die."islam" coes from "salam" peace chad.The Chosen One of Fire 23:50, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats not exactly how I was going to start out. I may not start out at all. I may be open minded but I fear that point the contradictions out on the Quren may move on from religious to political.--Mystic Monkey 23:56, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

it would be very likely, but truth to be told, i'm a moderate anarchist.The Chosen One of Fire:45, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I can pick at contradictions, one as plain as my computer monitor, but I just "think" it maybe a bad idea to start. At least a Sonic wiki isn't a place for that advance disccussion incase it may turn from debate into argument.--Mystic Monkey 01:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

apparently, you don't have your own computer monitor.The Chosen One of Fire 16:37, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, since you insist. If living like Muhammad really brings a life of peace and harmony, Didn't Muhammad himself had plenty of problems? He once said "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss; if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me. He is All-hearing, Ever-nigh.", in other words live like him, you'll be fine. If you don't, your own fault. In yet didn't Muslims, even in Muhhamad's time, had lots of grief with war and such? So it's not really certain whether the prophet Muhhamad lead them to loss, or it was Gods (Allah's) will for them to recieve this hassle.--Mystic Monkey 00:28, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

now, in the quran, allah says, Nothing will happen to you execpt which i want to happen, however all problems that are caused are caused by your self. If god wanted us all to be controlled, there would be no point of judging us or going to heaven or hell. Anyways, according to a famous saying, you win some, you lose some. Just because prophet muhamed was a prophet doesn't mean he was superman, everyone has their kryptonite. In the quran it also says o muhammed, say that you are a human just lie everyone else, yet allah reveals to you what he has not to any other man. in other words, muhammedwas a human,= who could make human descisions, but allah had chosen him to be a prophet.--: The  Chosen One Of  Water 01:36, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't he had over 13 wives and killed non-believers?--Mystic Monkey 01:57, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Back then, that was accept, not like now in our society. What you are doing is comparing a time WAY back and setting it to current standards. It dosn't work that way. And, he only killed non-belivers that foughthim. THey chose the fate (made thier own problems*thank you Water*)The Chosen One of Psychic 21:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

yes, he had 13 wives, but most of thise were to STOP wars and BUILD realations between different tribes, The customes back than was that no tribe could attack anther tribe who had a maritial relation with eachother. anyways, if you look at this, the prophet had 13 wives and only 6 kids(and four of them died at birth), which means the marriages weren't all for love, purposes, yet if you look at saudi king abdulaziz, he had 21 wives and 60 children.--: The  Chosen One Of  Water  ;) ''' 11:28, 1:6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So your saying that one of the Qurens teachings of trying to live like Muhhamed is invalid? After all, Qu'rens suppose to be more perfect than the bible yet you yourself can spot this contradiction.--Mystic Monkey 17:33, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

inncorrrect, what i am saying is that prophet muhamed lived a perfect life with no mistakess, yet he had the choice to mke the worong human descisions but he did not. Living like the prophet is basically any muslims dream, yet no one can be flawless, except for the prophets.--: The  Chosen One Of  Water ;) ''' 20:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Well spoken Water!!!The Chosen One of Psychic 21:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

thank you.--: The  Chosen One Of  Water ;) ''' 21:46, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

go water.The Chosen One of Fire 21:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)\

yay! i have a support team! now for cheerleaders. dawn, val, you willing? lol--: The  Chosen One Of  Water ;) ''' 21:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So the Quren doesn't say that Muslims should live like Muhammad?--Mystic Monkey 22:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

technically it does. let me word it like this:

god sent the quran with all the laws: pray, do this do that, don't do this, and so on

Muhamed folllwed the quran letter by letter

muslims try to flollow the quran lette by letter

therefore, they are following the way of muahmed.... sorry i have incorrect spelling, my labtop is lagging--: The <font color="#FFA500"> Chosen One Of <font color="#FF2400"> Water ;) ''' 22:57, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Read through the Quren discussion we are having, you may find the loop. I say the contradiction is copying Muhammed, you agree with me but the Quren do so anyway and we repeat, rince and leather. Admit it, there is a contradiction right there. If the Quren is so perfect then it would of taken in account "time". And if Muhhamed was going by the book and was OK with multiple wives and killing even if it was in primitive time, the Quren still allows this unless it's been updated by human hands and not of the god.--Mystic Monkey 23:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

The quran allows a max of 4 wives if you can create equality between them, and it dicourages marrying more than 1. And with the idea of killing, it was for self defense. your saying that you would rather sit their, watcher your parents get lashed to deeth with their eyes poked out and them screaming in pain while tied to flame hot irons? In the quran, it says: an eye for an eye, a tooth for tooth, a death for a death, yet who ever forgives there reward is with god. the prophet forgave many times, and so did the muslims, but know this: the prophet NEVER started a war, and he said the thing i hat most is holding a sword, theefore showing he was a prophet oif peace.--:<font color="#FF2400"> The <font color="#FFA500"> Chosen One Of <font color="#FF2400"> Water ;) ''' 23:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Muhammad had more than 4 wives, he had around 13 and some concubines. Plus he killed non-believers without giving them a chance to reconsider. Does that mean you have the right to kill me?--Mystic Monkey 23:42, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

number 1, muhamed preached in mecca for 13 years after he turned 40, meaning until he was 53, he was preaching in mecca. he died at 63, meaning he preached 10 more years in medina. does he not now hav the right to kill non believers? number 2, he had 9 wives, and like i said, not all of them were for love.--:<font color="#FF2400"> The <font color="#FFA500"> Chosen One Of <font color="#FF2400"> Water ;) ''' 00:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

one, that was before the ruling of the limit. the second thing, if your about to get jumped by somenone, regardless of their belief, would you just stand there waitng for them to reconsider or are you going to react.The Chosen One of Fire 00:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So you would kill me for harmlessly stating a valid argument?--Mystic Monkey 01:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

no, there was freedom of speech, second of all, you don't get jumped back then. you get 40 guys with spears trying to shank you rto death. We wouldn't do anything you for stating an arghument, we would only have attacked you for showing a sign of violence to Islam or oppresion or offence.--:<font color="#FF2400"> The <font color="#FFA500"> Chosen One Of <font color="#FF2400"> Water ;) ''' 02:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 40 guys with spears, in yet you don't get shanked. BTW freedom of speech wasn't invented then, you could of got killed for the idea of being assosiated with the devil in any way and even being assosiated with no god still deemed you heretics which was frowned apon. I have stated the contradictions pretty much all by myself. If you insist that the Quren is perfect, even though I just probably got the tip of the iceberg then by all means. I have clearly pointed out that if the Quren is more perfect than the bible on living in peace and harmony, wouldn't have to worry about wars and suffering the Muslims have put up with all there time because God is suppose to be everywhere (If he can make a planet in a week, Im sure he would have considerd things in advance, or at least don't have too. That is just one contradiction and theres probably many more. But the more I think about this Interfaith Discussion and as a recent admin, the more I am considering canning religious discussion if it gets on everyones nerves trying to hold onto there meaning of life. I do like debating and discussions but now it's just beggining to bore me if people are going round in circles of grief. And as staff I should be preventing grief.--Mystic Monkey 21:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Mnkey, alot of this stuff sounds like it comin from ur butt. God knew wat was gonna happen. He still though gave us a choice right, or wrong? he knows wat were gonna chosse, but gives us the options anyway so if he creates u directly in heaven/hell u dont say y? i wouldn't have done that...The Chosen One of Psychic 20:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If he knows what we're gonna choose, why humour us? It reminds me of the Trial of Job, Some versions it was a bet between God and Satan, other between Satan and Job that Job will remain loyal no matter what Satan throws at him and Satan took his wealth, health, family and life. Even though he was loyal to God, all because of a bet? This is why Id rather have full control of my life, you may continue to believe that everything is run by God and that things are planned, but sorry to say that to me, it's just ain't true, the worlds problems and difficulties are real. Hope can motivate action but if neither wars or belief will stop the problems, greif and terror that surround us, then it's time we take responsabilities for our planet than just saying it's the Devils work. anyone in favour against religious discussion on SNN?--Mystic Monkey 00:23, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

if you were thrown in jail for something you were gonna do, would you think it was fair?The Chosen One of Fire 20:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Depends on the crime really. I shouldn't be punished for exploiting contradictions because it's not my fault they are there. Sure I believe the bible hold some points in law, I wouldn't steal from someone not because a god said so but because I wouldn't want such a thing happening to me. I don't obey because I fear Hell, I obey the law because I fear hurting the people I care about as well as ending up as some meatbags prison toy named Mary. Prison is more real than Hell. This is another example of Human Responsability that Faith. If I know something is wrong with me mentally.--Mystic Monkey 21:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

1st mystic, you didnt answer my question. Second, have you ever said should i do this or that, pick this or that. god knows u will pick one, and wich one you will pick, but he gives you options. that way u dont complain when he sends u to heaven/hell.The Chosen One of Psychic 21:08, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry, misread the question due to the coding, I'll fix that for you. Again depends on the crime. Lets say I did something very terrible that is punishable by death such as kill someone of recent high power but get caught, tried and killed. Yes since that leader has done no bad deeds this would be a terrible thing. In yet months afterwards that particular leader is responsable for many deaths. Now I could have 2 reasons why I would want to kill anyone, that the victim would be a threat to people important to me or just a grudge such as revenge. Whatever the chosen reasons does it really matter? I would kill the victim to protect my family and friends when it turns out he wasn't a threat or I just hate him and be doing other people a favour. Other options are to let the bad person continue his deeds or know very well the person is a threat and do something but we are talking about a selection of options, so many options of both negative and possitive aspects that you can't simply say that are prechosen if you cannot predict the outcome. Sure you can say God got the spoilers but then he would be responsable for the evil in the world (Which technically he is since he didn't listehn to what Lucifer had to say.) Come to think about it, choice and oppinion is a "sin" since he granted it to his angel Lucifer and he wasn't happy with the results. Anyway for a direct answer to your question I cannot say because of the many reasons for commiting the crime in the first place. (And please read my answers carefully than nit-picking.)--Mystic Monkey 21:45, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

water that was very offensive up there. i happen to be a convert to islam from athiessm and i would never wear those disgusting, i can't even call them clothes, evn before , whan i was athiestic. someone update me on the debate.Valerie the Voxai 15:30, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Are you talking about the cheerleading clothes, and if so, what was the offensice thing about it,???--:<font color="#FF2400"> The <font color="#FFA500"> Chosen One Of <font color="#FF2400"> Water ;) 15:41, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Mystic, Yes and no. He will send those badd people to hell because they were really bad. put simply, no surprises to him!!The Chosen One of Psychic 20:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If your saying thes choices are to test us and us I repeativly been saying "Why bother?" Then he is not all knowing. Now I am interested in what Vox has to say.--Mystic Monkey 21:39, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Header to reduce anoying lag
This forum is completly pointless, i doubt anyone will change thier beliefs and i think it's wrong to force people's beliefs on someone.  Myself 123  23:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No one is forcing belief, I am just answering questions. I still say no more discussion on religious matter throughout the forums since even though I am just answering the questions honestly it still mixing greif. But no one really seems to be listening.--Mystic Monkey 00:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

well, mystic, no one knows..... but still, there is no use except to try to derail someone, when asking THAT question....The Chosen One of Psychic 23:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well still Im getting bored. if your questions were to try and make me convert then sorry but I trust truth more than religion.--Mystic Monkey 23:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

religion is  truthThe Chosen One of Psychic 19:37, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * When I ment by truth I was on about actual facts than religious faith, I had "Science" in mind since Science it latin for Truth. Religion is Latin for Devotion, Superstition and other such words (I have a Latin Dictionary) in other words "Religion is not truth."--Mystic Monkey 20:20, 26 March 2009

technically speaking, the quran does have science in it.The Chosen One of Fire 01:47, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, how can illetirite uneducated (in terms of todays universities and studies) man who lived 1400 yers ago know about the constellation and the process of how a baby is develpod (sperm egg, clot off blood, cell) and many scientific facts if there was not a god who created all these things teaching him? P.S. (its still me The chosen one of water) but under adifferent username--Leon S. Kennedy 20:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

The way i see is that science explains stuff whilst religion is like "it happend because i said it happend!" Anyways, beliefs are beliefs and if anyone is trying to convert others, it's looking pretty futile.  Myself  <font color="Black">123  20:44, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I was hoping this topic would just sink to the bottom by now... but in reply to Leon's question is simple. That person you presume illetirite and uneducated didn't discover semen, actually it pretty much discovered him (A puberty joke but you get the idea) actually many discoveries were through something bad and curiosity, such as discovering the reason why that guy died wasn't because God wanted him dead... but he choked on a carrot, they opened him up, found the problem and wern't so uneducated anymore. As for Astrology... it wasn't the Greeks, they were second to work with Astrology, but the Babylonians who studied the night sky and mathamatically put the pieces together scientifically and mathematically. The Greeks followed and with the telescope invented in the Netherlands in 1608 and eventually worked it's way up to space telescopes discovered that the Babylonians and Greeks wern't "illetirite uneducated" after all. You can't say this is your Gods doing because the Greek worshiped more gods than Pokemon and the Babylonians and I dunno the full story on what God thought of Babylon but either way God did not set Earth in the center of everything with the Sun and planets orbiting around it.--Mystic Monkey 22:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

we didn't say tahat we dicovered everytrhing, but that god created everything in science, math, etc. Arabs/mulims have have dicovered many things for sciencwe and math (Ibn Khaldun) we also discovered zero (us and the mayans) and why do you think they're called ARABIC</BIG> numerals.The Chosen One of Fire 00:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh* Another contradiction. If he invented Scientist then why did Scientist who started unravelling Gods written words got punished for heresy? Galileo Galilei said that the Sun and other planets do not revolve around the Earth but the Earth along with the other planets revolve around the sun. Result: Religious Butthurt! In other words God did not invent science. Though the Bible is scientifically accurate, it is still not a Science book, come to think of it doesn't talk about science that much because Science isn't Gods work. But since you believe in Science then you can see the contradiction.--Mystic Monkey 22:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

man, you gotta stop with that "big" glitch. put <\big> at the end to stop it.--:<font color="#FF2400"> The <font color="#FFA500"> Chosen One Of <font color="#FF2400"> Water I WILL PWN ALL!! 11:34, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

mystic, i don't see what is the big contradiction. we believe god created everything but with certain rules, though not all things. complete proofs of his exsistence would be the chaotic system of weather that we can only predicty so much of and even then not fully accurately.The Chosen One of Fire 02:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

well, fire, i the quran it says la ikraha fi deen or this is no forcing of religion. Nonre of us are trying to convert nyone here, but we will ask this question to mystic :what proof do you have that shows there is no god?--:<font color="#FF2400"> The <font color="#FFA500"> Chosen One Of <font color="#FF2400"> Water  I WILL PWN ALL!! 02:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

hey mystic, i made up my mind, i don't believe in computer manufacturures, i decided the computer im using came along on my desk by chance.The Chosen One of Fire 11:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

In answering to both Fire and Water's main questions, As much proof as you do. All you have to go by is books and words and people egging you on about the beliefs but you can't really proove nothing because there is nothing to proove, I can't proove to you there is an elephant in my bedroom because there really is no elephant (I have a Webcam if you want proof). You can't really say God made everything because every single thing has it's own reason to be here. A god didn't guide me to this forum, I chose to come here out of debate, I chose to join SNN out of Sonic, I am a big fan of Sonic because of his games. By fan Id say to a point of worship but even I admit Sonic is not real. There is no God because there is nothing to proove. the absolute closest you can get to proove to God were either made by human mortal hands under the credit of God, but no matter what it was still made by human hands whether under worship or trance. God didn't write the bible or the Qu'ren, Humans did and they written what they believe and people followed because they couldn't comprehend how things work in life and wanted fairy tales to soften the blow of things. PS Humans can control the weather, it's called Meteorology.--Mystic Monkey 20:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

two things, one thast last thing is immpossible. even if they could, knowing humans and how they mess up things way to often, they'd mess up this too. and if God Doesn't exist, how does the brain work on electricity so perfectly and at near light speeds, " on accident". how did the mountains form (yopu're going to say plate tectonics but get thi, who made plate tectonics?) how is it that if the cleanerfish is left alone before it was born that it knows how to clean fish mouths and it knows that it's not going to get eaten? how does the Moses fish know tha the great white shark's teeth are too hard for its shell to break through and instead emits a foul stench and does not do this to, say, a hammerhead. how is it that the black hole pulsates gamma rays "on its own" which prevent it from growing so big, it will swallow the universe. if antimatter is matters equal but oppostie (-1, 1) how come the universe was made, by chance, much more matter than anti? my main quetion here is, HOW?The Chosen One of Fire 22:11, 4 April 2009 (UTC)