User talk:Supermorff

Adding categories to Dark Valley, you say??
Well... thanks. I'd clearly dropped the ball and forgotten them there. But in due course, I'd like to ask your opinion on the Locations vs. Game stages categories.

You would think they would overlap lots, wouldn't you? And, indeed, they do. What I've been doing (when I remember to add them at all!) is stick "Game stages" on everything that is... well, a named level or zone. And stick Locations on things when they become MORE than just one level - like Green Hill, which has been in many, many games, and so clearly becomes a Plot Element instead of just a random stage. Also, Soleanna, which isn't a specific named level ever, but is clearly a location.

Which generally boils down to: if it's NEVER been a game stage, it gets just location. If it's ONCE been a game stage, it gets Game Stage. If it's been a game stage more than once, it gets Location AND Game stage.

Do you think this makes any sense at all? I would like to try and hammer out (at some point) an SNN "best practice procedure" for Game Stage category vs. Location categoty, and so your sage thoughts on the matter would be much appreciated. :D The Doctor... IS IN Molten Scandium  00:28, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think there are two things to consider here: namely the short-term and long-term methods for dealing with this little difficulty. Short-term, your solution is pretty good. It means at the very least that every game stage is categorised as such, and every location is either in the Locations category or one of its subcats.
 * Long-term, I'm still slightly conflicted over the best way to deal with it. Fortunately, being long-term, we have some time yet to ponder it. I assure you I will give this some thought.
 * Oh, the one thing I would point out is that some "game stages" clearly aren't "locations" in the usual sense: e.g. Babylon Guardian is a character and boss stage, but the location where the boss battle takes place appears to be called the Digital Dimension. So that's something to keep an eye on in future as well. -- Supermorff 15:56, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Retro
Much as it pains me to realise that all my thousands of edits in Wiki-ing since January might have been redundant duplication, I direct your attention to Sonic Retro, which, as I've been informing SLJ, seems to have already largely hammered out a working category tree. As well as looking much snazzier, being sans Wikia adverts, and standing largely immune to the gradual attrition of vandalism and forum banality by requiring forum sign-up before editing priveliges are granted. I am seriously considering simply porting all my articles over there and editing Retro instead... but AS I muse over said conundrum, there's also the fact that their intricate category schema may be of applicability to SNN. You may or may not wish to check it out. The Doctor... IS IN Molten Scandium  02:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It has become apparent to me that I can make THIS wiki look almost as snazzy simply by changing the skin settings. HA! And yes, on closer inspection you may be right about their categories. The fact that they have written Category pages blinded me to the fact that there's absolutely no provision for comics and etc. at all. HMM. The Doctor... IS IN Molten Scandium  20:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Here for users, and here for IP's. SLJC OAAA TR 1  16:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Archive tool
Hey Morff. You see, I was given a link on how to incorporate the Archive Tool, but I'm not sure I know how to do it. I put up a link on my User page, so do you think you'd be able to take care of it?--Kagi mizu -Seeya  'round ~ 18:44, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Well, I just thought it would be a good idea for Users who want to get their messages in order, but can't afford the space, a.k.a Shelly. My Talk Page is getting a little long as well, but I want to hold on to the history. So, do you think anyone else would be able to incorporate it?--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 14:17, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Template
Hey Supermorff, I was wondering if you could help me out. You see, I want to make a template, but I haven't the slightest clue how to make a template.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 18:31, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Well, the template I had in mind would be a Banner Type. You see, back when before Shelly finally became the official featured user, I decided that I wanted to try and make a Featured User template; you know, so the people who had earned that could show a little pride in their hard work. I imagined it kind of like the Past Featured Article Template, with some differences. While the body would still be black, the lines would be yellow, and their would be two pictures of Super Sonic on the left and right. In the Top Center, in big Red letters, it would say "FEATURED USER!!!", and at the bottom center, it would say in red, normal-sized text, "This User has been a Featured User [Number of times the User has been a Featured User] times". It's been a thought of mine for a while, but now I want to try and make it, before the results of the next poll (after the current one) decide a Featured User. What are your thoughts on this template idea? -<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~

Well, I'd like to know what those opinions are at a later time, but thanks! I'm gonna get working on it right now! I'm using the fanon template as a base, since it seems pretty similiar.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 19:59, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Hey Morff, check out the sandbox!!! It actually didn't take me too long to get the desired look XD. Anyway, I still have a few kinks in it to work out (like making it an actual template, making it easier to change the number), but I've gotten the basic stuff out of the way. So tell me what you think of it, and be honest.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 20:21, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Desaturating? What's that? I could try to make the color darker though. Anyway, I'm glad you like the template!--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 18:06, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Hm, you'd think he would be able to figure that out. Anyway, I've tried experimenting with different font colors, but no luck. Blood red was too dark, and when I tried ruby red... the text turned blue. BLUE! See! I tried ruby red, and this happens!--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 18:17, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I preferred the black. Problem is, now I don't know how to change it back! Grrrrrr, it just ticks me off when LB does that! Anyway, have any idea how I can make the red just a bit darker?--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 18:26, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's already been changed back. I guess I could see how the bronze looks on it.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 18:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

A query I have
Hello Supermorff,

I've been informed from Kagimizu that I should seek a mod about a query I have instead of actually trying to edit the articles themselves so I simply chose you out of random because I can't seem to find anyone in charge of this wiki as a whole admin.

Anyways, this topic is about the trivia sections on this site. I've been here at SNN for some time (I believe since June) and think this Sonic wiki is a good idea. A place where every fan can input info they find. I come to this site often to get info and listings. It's all good except for one section: trivia. When I look at the trivia sections, it's a complete mess. There is information in those sections on almost every page with trivia that should not belong. Some of them are fan speculations, others are hypothesis and guesses, and some are just dumb and pointless. At this time, I thought someone was not taking care of this and all this info was inputted by someone who had no idea what they were doing or what belong in the article or not. So I decided to edit them myself and clean up the trivia sections that had information not necessary. Well to my surprise, they kept reappearing. Every page I went, the info kept popping up. At first I thought it was some stubborn user but then it turned out it was none other than Kagimizu, a mod. It would be understandable if it was some user who did not know how to input info into a trivia section but if a mod approves of such info, then we got a problem here.

I'm a fan of the trivia sections. I love them because you get even more in depth info from the subject in question that you would not learn formally. But when I come to SNN, I am displeased to learn that almost anything is put into the trivia sections. It's as if no one knows how to do a trivia section properly and assume anything can be put in.

A trivia section is a section of an article where info that cannot be placed on the main article is placed on it's own section. This info is not important enough to be a part of the main section but still useful enough to be known so it should not be omitted. The information that goes into a trivia section adds and expands the article and gives more insight, knowledge, and description to the subject. Wikipedia's guidelines for trivia state that it's info that can not fit anywhere and the editor should try to look for a place to put it in. In other words, trivia is the last thing that should be worked on because you want to search for a place to fit the info on the article and add to it. If it can't be added, then it's considered trivial and thus, goes into it's own section.

But this does not apply to SNN. When I see an trivia section, I am seeing information that is quiet useless to know about such as comparing one character to another. I don't understand why I need to know about a trait that is more coincidental than it is about the development of the character. If one character has a trait that is similar to another, such as Blaze being similar to Knuckles in the fact that they are guardians of certain emeralds, then you must ask yourself "Why is this important to the article?" In the example I showed, how does that information help the Blaze article expand more and give insight to her. If it was stated by a employee at Sega that they got inspiration from Knuckles when modeling Blaze, than that would be considered trivia since you would not be able to fit it into the article itself but is important to the understanding of Blaze's development. But if it's just a coincidence that Blaze so happens to be like Knuckles in only that they share that trait and there is nothing to back up that they both share such a common feature besides it being a coincidence, than that is not trivia because it does not help the expand the article and it's pretty much just an observation someone made.

There are many common mistakes that are added to the trivia sections. Others being fan speculations, good obsevations that are not informative enough to warrant research, what people "think" might be, and stuff that is not informative at all and are just comments. These may be interesting to know but when I read them, they didn't add to the article I was reading and didn't help my research. It felt like I was reading a persons comment rather than an excerpt of the subject. If the item doesn't give you applied knowledge, it should not be included.

I believe that the trivia sections need a serious clean up. If a mod approves it, then that means that no one here knows how trivia should be done. Serious guidelines should be done for trivia and what it is, what should go in it, and so on. The other info is not important to be warranted as research. Though I have thought about why a mod would approve of it, I come to the conclusion that they consider it important to know. I came to this because I remember I edited out a bad trivia item when I was editing articles. When it was brought back though, that item was not. So there is some attention being put to the trivia sections but no real guideline. That is why I propose there be a new section: miscellaneous. Just what it means, anything and everything else that doesn't even fit in trivia. While trivia SHOULD still cover the article's items that are not important to be in the article itself but still important enough to be known, miscellaneous is just information that is not really important to know but have been observed and might be of interest one way or another. Observations that have bee noted like comparing one character to another (especially when the other character is not even from Sega) is not really trivia but can be put into miscellaneous. I think it would clean up the trivia section and make it more neat.

So that is my post. Sorry if it's huge but it should show you that I am serious about the trivia sections. I love them and hate to see this wiki mishandle them just because people don't understand what trivia means. Just because trivia means info that cannot be inserted into the main article, it does not mean ANYTHING can be placed under it. It should still contain information that adds to the article in a small way but gives you a bit more information about the subject that is necessary to know about. Anything that is simply observed or coincidences are not trivia unless it is backed up by a source of information that is not hearsay or guessing. If you want to have that information, then a good idea would be to make a separate section for them. This will help keep the article in order so when you get to the trivia section, it won't be a jumble mess and you will be able to tell what's actual fact and what is a possibility. --TKGB 07:27, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I'm glad that you agree and was surprised to know that someone else has a concern about it. But that still doesn't solve anything. Isn't there anything that can be done about this? Simply editing it won't do since someone will just end up undoing it.--TKGB 00:28, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, that's not entirely true. If we simply keep an eye on the articles and remove uneeded info, that should really clean up the Trivia.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 00:36, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that would be ideal except that people don't understand what trivia is here. There is no guideline for that in this wiki and people just keep posting items unrelated to being trivia and it keeps being approved. So when you say "uneeded", what does that mean here? That's why I'm proposing two sections. That would be ideal to keep stuff that is still revelant to the subject and info that is are just hypothesis that people have (i.e. "...because of this, it is believed that...").--TKGB 00:47, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Well, Trivia already has its own "section" on pages, but seperate pages is too far. The way I see it, if the trivia is notable and relevant, it's fine by me. For example, some new trivia that was added to Amy's page was that "Amy is currently the only female hedgehog in the games". Stuff like that seems reasonable to me.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 00:52, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * See, that kind of information is not trivia. Firstly, what I suggested was not a new page but a new category for this kind of thing. Second, I don't think you understand the meaning of trivia. As I've said on the original long post I made for Supermorff, trivia is information that aids the article. It helps expand the article on knowledge about the subject. Don't you think that pointing out that Amy is the only female hedgehog is too loose to be considered helpful. If you approve of that, how about "Amy is currently the only pink female character". How about "Amy is currently the only character who wields a hammer". Or "Amy is currently the only character that was kidnapped by Metal Sonic" and "Amy is currently the only hedgehog whose design has changed drastically"? You have to ask yourself if the information is helpful in research and development of the character both ingame and real world, not just observations.

If you still can't understand what I mean, consider another subject. Let me use English as an example. Look at this site:

http://www.sentex.net/~ajy/facts/words.html

The site contains many information that can be considered trivia. So by your approval, one could put "As of today, the letter Y is the only one that can be used as both a vowel and a consonant." Yeah, thats nice but it's pretty obvious that most people know about it so it doesn't need to be written down. I hope you understand what I mean. --TKGB 06:13, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

In my books, if you have several strings of trivia related to each other, then those need to be clumped together to form a new section, as was the case with Silver when I first came here. Trivia is my biggest crib with this wikia and I'm a reglaur visitor here. I raised this issue recently, because Silver's trivia section was massive. I listed elsewhere several points and problems with trivia. In the end it comes down to this: Can it fit elsewhere on the page? If yes, then it doesn't belong in trivia. If not, then it belongs in trivia.

As a experience wikia peep, this wikia can be off putting at times, but I come here because I have long term issues with wikipedia (used to be a wikipedian until 2 years ago or so). At the very least, what someone needs to do is look at the largest section on the page other then trivia (not including galleries) and ask "Is the trivia section bigger then this?". If yes, something needs to be done ASAP, as I had to do with Silver's page. Regardless, I'm happy to see it finally being discussed, but there seems to be a problem with controlling it. If you have guidelines for trivia, that would help, if not, perhaps its time something was done. One-Winged Hawk 15:16, October 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, since it was mentioned either, does this wikia have a Staff page? That would help find mods and admins if there are problems. One-Winged Hawk 15:18, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

You know what, I made a category specifically for something like this. Go to Category:Admins. Now, not every admin is listed, but some of the more prominent ones are.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500"> 'round ~ 15:22, October 8, 2009 (UTC)