Talk:Super Sonic

Faster than Light?
The article states that Super Sonic can move Faster than Light, and it has been shown in Sonic Rush. Can Super Sonic really travel faster than Light? If so, is the proof only present in Sonic Rush, or is it present in other games as well? A brief explanation of the 'Super Sonic+Burning Blaze traveling to fight the Eggmans' scene would be appreciated. --MJ 02:37, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Large Update
I am updating the Super Sonic page with a fair bit of changes and information, the inforamtion is not as detailed as it could be though, if you feel it could be better worded or more detailed please edit it. --ZERO ninja 23:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

pics
Is it really necessary for that pic of Goku to be so large?Xeno the Hedgehog 20:08, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You could make it smaller if it bothers you. -- Supermorff 20:37, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * wait, is it even neccesary for a pic of him on this page? I know Supers based on him but still?-- Skylerthewasp  20:40, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the pic should stay so people know what a super saiyan looks like.  Myself  123  20:44, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Couldn't we just use the image in a reference?Fair field fencer F F F  20:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with Triple F.-- Skylerthewasp  13:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * scratch that, i changed my mind, we should keep it but have it smaller, as suggested by myself 123-- Skylerthewasp  10:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm with FFF. In my random perusing there is a nasty creep of Other Series info sneaking into the wiki. Just look at pretty much any character page's trivia section and you find about 50 bulletpoints of rabid fanbois yelling "OMG Silver is Trunks" or rambling on and on with inane comparisons between SatBK and Zelda or some other rubbish. Super Sonic is NOT a Super Saiyen. Unless someone convinces me otherwise sharpish, I'm turning that ENTIRE "Homage to Dragonball Z" section into a one-line footnote this time tomorrow, because this sort of non-Sonic bloat on the Sonic wiki is really getting on my nerves. The Doctor... IS IN Molten Scandium  00:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Excuse me but could someone take tha Not Super Sonic pic down, cause it's really not neccessary. I just don't think the article needs a picture of what Super Sonic doesn't look like. I'm gonna try to remove it myself' but I'm inexperienced, so prepare to need to do some fixin.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 01:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like you did pretty well to me. -- Supermorff 05:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank You, I didn't know taking pictures down was that easy. I'm not one to usually do something unless I'm sure of what will happen, since it could just as easily ruin what I'm tryin' to fix.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 18:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Sonic Rush Technique and Power
Hey, does anyone know the name of that technique Sonic uses in Sonic Rush 2? Is it a Chaos Power? If so, is it unique to Sonic? Also, wouldn't Sonic be the weakest "Super", since he can only charge opponents and use Chaos Control, while Shadow and Silver have those, and Chaos Spear/Psychokinesis, respectively?

Sorry, I forgot to sign this.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 19:32, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I think not. I've played many Sonic games and I look at it this way. Sonic has fought the demi-god Chaos, Dark Gaia, and there was the Echidna legends. I think that Super Sonic has more potential then any other Super form, partially because of some of Sonic's other adventures. It might be possible that Super Sonic might also be able to absorb some other mystical objects like: the Time Stones, the World Rings, the Sacred Swords, and the Super Emeralds. objects that only Sonic used to power up. (The moronic Genie doesn't count) Thus Super Sonic could be the most powerful entity alive. Shadic the  Hedgehog  19:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC) (I could be wrong though)

1. Shadow and Silver weren't in those games, so you can't really count those, cause there's nothing to compare to. 2. Super Sonic didn't absorb those, ordinary Sonic did. 2.1. Warp Rings, Sacred Swords, non-canon. 2.2. I'm not even sure he "absorbed" the Sacred Swords. 3. We can't assume that Shadow and Silver 'can't' use items like the Time Stones and Super Emeralds, just because we've never seen them (and probably never will) use said items. Also, what about the first part of my question? Can anyone answer that?--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 01:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I had an idea. Now, I can't do this myself, on account of that I don't know how to upload pictures (though I doubt that my computer can do it even if I knew how to), and I don't know how to place them, but what if someone put pictures up of all of Super Sonic's appearences in the games? Just an idea I had.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 19:41, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Silver probably can't anymore due to the time events of 06 and his path never crossing and discovering Chaos Control. Anyway- Sonic already showed he's in the same potential as Shadow- and that'd extend to Super Sonic respectively. For starts, looking at his whole arsenel list, it's huge- now cut out all of the comic and X abilities, and we still have Sonic Wind(he hasn't used it since sadventure 2), plus he did pull off CC with the poewr of the fake emerald- yet with the same wavelength and properties and range- that fact that he could pull it off says  a lot about his potential.

For Sonic to show more powers, he'd have to start using Chaos Powers more often- and he's always got his own speed in mind to solve problems. Or he lacks creativity. Meanwhile Super Sonic, doesn't suffer from a lack of willingness- he simply handles things as he always has.

For now though, the evidence is enough that Super Sonic is as capable as Super Shadow- and Super Shadow's comments to him during the Biolizard battle hint at that. Not to mention Super Shadow said there was a CHANCE it could be a fair and fun fight ocne he took on Solaris- that alone hints highly that their power really is through the roof. yet, it simply doesn't get emphasis. (Which is SEGA's doing)

STC's closer comparison
Apparently someone decided to undo my edit which listed as STC's Super Sonic bearing a closer resemblance to the Super Saiyan than the games. This being said because both Super Sonic and the Super Saiyan forms are both activated through rage and both often become almost completely change the users in terms of personality. Kaihedgie 19:10, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't want to step on toes, but 1. Traditional Super Forms are activated through the positive energy of the Chaos Emeralds (See Sonic Adventure/Sonic DX for what I mean), not through negative emotions like rage, Darkspine Sonic (and maybe Werehog Sonic) being the exception, 2. Also, after transforming, characters retain pretty much every bit of their usual personality. Heck, other than becoming much more serious (during battle), Super Saiyans retain their normal personality as well. I know this because I was a fan of the DragonBall series. Don't want to start fights, but that stuff's a little bit off.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 03:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I was referrin' to STC's depiction, not the games. That depiction was seen as bein' accessible through rage. Kaihedgie 04:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't know that much about STC, and I've never read a single issue (comic or online) and even I know that much is true. However, on the personality bit, that Super Sonic is a split personality. Other than that, I think your pretty much on the spot as far as I know. Still, I think the reason it was deleted is because some people are tired of Super Sonic being compared to Super Sayians, which I could understand. It's a theory.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 04:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)



Reference failure
Anyone got a clue why the reference in the page quote ain't workin' correctly? --Herman2000 23:05, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's working fine for me. -- Supermorff 06:52, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Sparklebutt
I just wanna know, what games does Super Sonic appear with "sparkles"? I know it's acommon trait in both the comics and STC but just wondering the games. So far I think it's
 * Sonic 2, 3 & K (As long as he busts an Invinciblity monitor before transformation and it will last as long as Super Sonic)
 * Sonic the Fighters
 * Sonic R
 * Super Smash Bros. Brawl

What other games is Super Sonic sparkly?--Mystic Monkey  sez 17:46, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Hahahaha, "Sparklebutt"! Super Guy 100 =)

Sonic CD?
This page lists Super Sonic as appearing in Sonic CD. As far as I know, this is incorrect, but I wanted to make sure it was before I deleted it. Gefred7112 20:49, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

He dose and he doesn't. There is an extra special stage in the game and completing it wins another Time Stone. After getting the Time Stone, the Ring Monitors change to Super Monitors granting him speed and invincibility, but his appearance doesn't change. Don't know if it counts as a real appearance though.  Myself 123  21:12, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

About the current main image
While it too, was pulled off of the assets DVD, it's source is actually promotional artwork from Unleashed. It was seen before in this here scan from a Japanese gaming magazine promoting the game. It's based on the Channel artwork in the same way Eggman's from that same game is, and as Metal Sonic's from Sonic Rivals 2 is.

The More You Know Aquaslash 10:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Sonic's Eye color
Aside form Sonic 3 and Knux/ Sonic 3 / Sonic and Knux (where his eyes are Aqua), Super Sonic's eye color is red from Sonic the hedgehog 2, and every other game- yet i see a reference to Sonic X saying his eyes are orange- that's odd, thought they were red like the games...Matter of fact, I'm sure of it. Unless they got lazy with coloring for Super Sonic.98.85.146.118 06:59, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

His eyes are portrayed and orange-ish red in Sonic X, but they're usually red in the games since Sonic Adventure. However, they were green-ish in Sonic 3 & Knuckles and black in every game preceeding Sonic Adventure that featured Super Sonic. --Herman2000 21:49, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Redundancy in Appearance
The Sonic Colors appearance says that it's the same as Sonic Unleashed, but with Sonic 4's aura, whereas Sonic 4 says it's Sonic Unleashed with a flaming aura. Isn't this redundant? Should you just put "Same as Sonic 4"? You can't use the cell shading as an excuse, because I'm fairly sure Sonic Free Riders isn't cell shaded either, and it says "Same as Sonic 4."

Theme Songs
It says that Super Sonic vs Dark gaia and all the other instrumental final boss themes are sang by somebody. Is that really needed?

Knuckleschaotix 20:33, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think so, just get rid of it. It isn't needed at all.

Regarding him holding his form during actual fights
Every time he's fought as Super Sonic- he fought them as Super Sonic until he defeated them. I found it kinda odd that the article mentioned that while Super Sonic can hold his form as long as he needs, it takes less of a strain if he is not fighting.

This was wrong in the example mentioned because Super Sonic was still fighting Eggman at the time.

He DID come back as soon as the fight ended. 98.85.146.2 03:30, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

I noticed someone re-added the part abotu it being "most likely he can hold his form when he is not fighting" Why? There's nothing to indicate he has trouble holding his form during fights that take a very long time.(canoically, remember. Not including the ring game mechanic)

Looking at his entire history from Sonic the Hedgehog2 to today- we can't surmise that.

98.85.142.196 05:18, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

I removed this line"""

Reasons for this are most likely because when Super Sonic is fighting in the extremeconditions that he does, he is using more energy, which causes him to have to rely on ring energy to sustain his form, however when he is done fighting, he does not need ring energy anymore, allowing him to sustain his form for extended periods of time as mentioned above. ""

Plus, I realized something I should have jumped on as soon as i saw it- rings are not canon to a SUPER FORM. So, "does not need ring energy" is completely incorrect. Remember (as is correctly pointed out in the artice), Rings are a gameplay mechanic. Actual hard canon shows they aren't necessary. Which means it's the power of the Chaos Emeralds- and each Chaos Emerald has unlimited energy, so as long as he actually taps into it- he can't run out. He'd have been dead otherwise and not have lasted a week+ on the moon in Sonic advance. Or would not have lasted during Sonic Shuffle if you consider that one.

Please, guys, sign your posts when you use a talk page!-- A k  a  m  i  a ( Talk )( Want to see what I've been doing? ) 05:38, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for not signing my posts above. had forgotted.

To the rest- is there a reason this was added back in?

"Reasons for this are most likely because when Super Sonic isfighting in the extreme conditions that he does, he is using more energy, which causes him to have to rely on ring energy to sustain his form, however when he is done fighting, he does not need ring energy anymore, allowing him to sustain his form for extended periods of time as mentioned above. "

If someone want's to discuss then then by all means come on and lets talk. I'd love to know what material you're going by- canon wise, regarding the Super Forms and "ring energy".

There is no reason to add something that contradicts other established parts in the article by throwing in this monkey wrench over and over again. Througout Sonic X, the games, the Comics- everything, what I mentioned above holds true. So, can we quit with the reversing for unknonw reasons? 98.85.140.209 06:13, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Let me, hopefully settle this.

First off, read:

Reasons for this are most likely because when Super Sonic is fighting in the extreme conditions that he does, he is using more energy, which causes him to have to rely on ring energy to sustain his form, however when he is done fighting, he does not need ring energy anymore, allowing him to sustain his form for extended periods of time as mentioned above.

In nearly every game he's in, when you play as him, there is a ring count, and the ring count, serves as your timer for to when you are about to die because he uses the ring energy to fight the boss or enemy. When he is fighting, he is mostly in space, or in a very dangerous area, and thus, needs rings to stay alive in these areas. When he is done fighting, he doesn't need rings. This, again, was shown in Sonic Advance. The reason why, is because he isn't fighting Eggman or a really powerful villain, he is just floating through the air. Any of you think how Tails does it, he tires out after a little while, but that ain't the point. Again, I'll use Sonic Advance as an example. When he was done on the moon(because, obviously you can see the robot crumbling away) he was slowly making his way to Earth like a spaceship would. And he did sustain his form for a period of time because yes, again, he didn't need rings. The rings are only needed for the fights because he is using all his power against x boss or enemy, and aren't needed to sustain the form. We all clear now?

also, check my talk page because I have a problem with my signature. Read what is there above, I have seen the ending for that game, so I know what you mean. Pinkolol-A proud Sonic Fan 12:38, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

I just tapped into more info.

Remember, as I said above, he needs rings to stay alive. The Chaos Emeralds probably just wouldn't be enough, and besides, rings are a gameplay mechanic. Sonic turns golden, rings are golden. It might not be a coicidence he is able to produce 50 rings on the spot(sometimes less or more) It might not be in the stories, but 1. that could make the plot of x game more confusing and 2. We need it as a gameplay mechanic. LEAVE it, remember, in that section, it means GAMEPLAY conditions, not story conditions. Try to understand what I'm saying. Leave it, because that section talks about gameplay AND story issues, so leave that part of that paragraph alone please. Pinkolol-A proud Sonic Fan 12:54, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

again, more info.

When I said above that he would be moving slow like a spaceship, maybe think about the environments he is in. Space, underground caves, time etc. you think he can go fast in a place with no air? or that is really hot? The chaos emeralds may have unlimited energy, but think, to harness unlimited power in your body, and he's still learning how to harness that power and thus uses rings. Happy? Rings are essential in all aspects of Sonic media, so keep it. if I get more info, i'll gladly put it here to shut everyones mouths and get them to put it back on the article. I fully understood that paragraph, and I don't know why someone deleted it, because it is a valuable source of information.Pinkolol-A proud Sonic Fan 13:04, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

You can move a lot faster in a vacuum because there is no air therefore no friction. Just thought I should mention that.  Myself 123  13:48, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

So I went back and went through as many Sonic Games as I could, and played through, before I returned here.

There is still the issue that if it's a gameplay mechanic, that what you've posted is simply a theory and has no actual basis. I just went and re-beat Sonic Advance a couple of times to check, and you missed something major, which would be that he was fighting the entire time. It too Super Sonic almost NO time to get up to the moon, so you're assuming that he wasn't fighting and thus didn't need rings- but then why would he take that long to get back ?That is the major flaw in your ring theory you came up with.

""'When he is fighting, he is mostly in space, or in a very dangerous area, and thus, needs rings to stay alive in these areas. ""This is incorrect because it is widely known that the power of the Chaos Emeralds renders you invincible, and this is cited and stated outright by multiple characters including Sonic in the series. I can refer you if you would like.

Furthermore,""""The chaos emeralds may have unlimited energy, but think, to harness unlimited power in your body, and he's still learning how to harness that power and thus uses rings. Happy? Rings are essential in all aspects of Sonic media, so keep it. if I get more info, i'll gladly put it here to shut everyones mouths and get them to put it back on the article.""" .does not justify the usage of theories of rings, otherwise I could state that item boxes are essential aspects of Sonic Media.

Then, """ When he was done on the moon(because, obviously you can see the robot crumbling away) he was slowly making his way to Earth like a spaceship would. """"There is nothign to indicate this, and we can't assume that, just as we cannot take concrete guesses at the aftermath of the events immediatly after Solaris was defeated in Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. Do you see the problems this would trigger?


 * 2, that actually is not true as well. Sonic the Fighters? Sonic Shuffle?Read Sonic Fleetway comics?Read Sonic ARCHIE Comics?Watched SONIC X? Have you Played Sonc R? I assume you're as familiar with all these as me.

In Sonic the Fighters,and Sonic R, Super Sonic does not Consume rings once you unlock him. Neither is this the case in Sonic Shuffle. In Sonic Fleetway Comics, the Super transformation does not need to be triggered by the standard methods.(I am aware of this being outer media, so disregard if this aspectt of the sonic universe is not within the scope or factual coverage of this wiki) ARCHIE Comics does the same as well..

Overall, the idea that because rings exist in the Sonic Universe, that they must have some relationship to whenther or not Super Sonic is fighting strenously or not(Matter of fact -this is not true in gameplay either, See Sonic Riders), does not have any serious correlation in gameplay at all. Nor can I discover any correlation between strenous fighting and Sonic's activity, whenther he is in hsi Super form or in his Base form). Rings are only used as a mechanic for extra lives and to protect him from dying, up until Sonic Heroes where it was started the practice of expending rings OR energy for him to do a special move(In this case the Light Speed Attack against Metal Overlord)

In Conclusion, I am unable to discover a hard foundation for including that theory in the wiki. If we are going to include theories, should they not be backed by evidence that is at least...visible? Or perhaps easily observable from the games? There is no reason to include this theory in the wiki.

I am curious how others feel about adding theories such as this. I would like to point out that this differs quite a bit from ones that actually have a basis, such as the "continous usage will cause your character to dissapear" one in Sonic Adventure 2/Sonic Adventure 2 battle.

Anyone who plays Sonic games knows the rings are used as a way for a Superform to lose in a GAME. Telling our readers that rings are most likely used due to strenous activity is unfounded, and ill-advised, following the evidence I gathered and mentioned above.

Alternatively, that theory would serve better under a actual theories Section in the article- that would also solve this debate as well.

I would like other's input regarding the strenous/ring/fighting matter.

````98.85.148.137 15:32, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

After I pointed out that the theory has no basis, I went ahead and cleared it up in the article by posting the details from what you said on this talk page and cleaned it up addressing any holes in the theory. Now there is a fine distinction, and that is in relationship to the idea you mentioned that the article should also have gameplay mechanics mentioned. Now it is clarified in the argument.

I do not believe this should be in the article at all due to a complete lack of evidence even hinting at the possibility, and such at this current time. However, while I wait for others to give their opinion, I have altered it so it is clarified in the wiki.

if it is to be kept, what would the communities's opinion be on a Theories Section at the bottom of the wiki for it?98.85.148.137 15:41, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Okay... whatever, just try to keep the fact that he can keep it for extended periods of time, because he does do that, but I have seen the ending to Sonic Advance, and I have played the boss fight(I have access to it) and When I played it, when I beat it, it was crumbling away, and Sonic wasn't fighting Eggman. It might have taken a week to find him because the Sonic characters are in the wrong spot, but, about what you saw with Sonic Advance, it just doesn't sound like that game, he returned, after that robot crumbled, which might have taken a long time. And i'm saying might because we didn't see him in space when he was coming back, but I can definetely say that your statement to SAdv ending is a little wrong. When you ended the boss fight you saw it crumbling away I didn't mean it was seen in the ending. I have watched Sonic X yes, but rings serve a different purpose and anything NOT related to the games(like comics or shows)are not canonical and just leave it confusing. Just leave the part that he can leave it for a week because(okay I was wrong) he can use the energy from the emeralds. Are you happy now? About the other games, ones racing, the others fighting, another is a rip-off of mario party(without the fun), they are spin-off games and don't relate to the main series at all. Okay, just leave the part I said above in there alright? I'm sorry I was providing theory, but I only have a few games(and access to a few) so don't come down on me with games on consoles I don't have. Again with SAdv, please don't put wrong statements, he beat the robot, and it took a week because the other characters couldn't find him, they weren't in the right area(hopefully im right with this) anyway, about the theories section, do you see other characters have theory sections, just leave it if its wrong, just leave the part he left it for a week by using the unlimited power from the emeralds. end.Pinkolol-A proud Sonic Fan 21:59, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

And about the ring energy at the top of this section:

its a little wrong.

the part with the emeralds is correct, but, it kinda does take the strain off if hes not fighting, he's a hedgehog, come on. And with the ring game mechanic, I'll go by my strong memories about the extra boss fights.

They might not be canonical to the story, but in the extra boss fights(which, by the way, im talking about some of the handheld games that relate to the mega drive) the rings serve as your timer, til you die in that area, and the part about the rings probably meant it as, yes, a gameplay mechanic, or maybe wrong. I already explained the part with SAdv above anyway. If I have anything more to mention, i'll put it here.Pinkolol-A proud Sonic Fan 22:10, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Image Gallery
Should he have an image gallery? <font color="Blue">It's over 9000!! 03:03, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Super Sonic should have a image gallery.. :|

It shows depictions and portrayals of his appearence. And they also help highlight all the subtle changes, and the drastic ones as well (Sonic 3 and K eye color)

Although some more famous comparisons are missing...(Sonic Adventure 2 compared to Sonic Adventure 2 Battle)

It's needed so as more Sonic Games come out you can tell the difference/the similarities. It provides a reference for those who haven't played the games and won't and need to refer to him. it also can be quite notable due to the game- such as how the graphics engine of the Dreamcast caused Super Shadow to have that gleamish color as opposed to say Shadow the Hedgehog(2005). Most importanly, having a Image gallery proivdes reverence. I can't think of any reason why he should not have one.

98.85.148.137 16:45, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sonic Generations
I am keen on getting the 3DS Version of Sonic Generations along with SM3DL and MK3D. I would love to see this in Sonic Generations and I hope the theme will be based of Super Sonic's theme from Sonic 2. Mr. Curious 13:10, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Do we really need the huge list of pointless appearance things throughout games? He only changes design during the transition from Classic to Modern. User:PabloDePablo- That's me! *wink* 04:35, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

The Legend of the Golden Warrior
I know it is believed Super Sonic is based after Super Saiyans but I think both are actually based off a legend of a golden warrior. I checked wikipedia but couldn't find anything on it. Does anyone know of this legend?--<font color="00FF69">Mystic Monkey is a proud MonoBook Wikian. 00:31, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Where did you get this legend from? (not trying to sound rude) DarkK3 02:07, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's one of the Did You Know's on Wikipedia's Sonic Portal.--<font color="00FF69">Mystic Monkey is a proud MonoBook Wikian. 03:29, February 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * ...Well, I don't think that counts as proof of Super Sonic being based off this "golden warrior" legend, unless you can find it of course. I tried looking for it,but all i found where fan fics.DarkK3 03:40, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well if it ian't Super Saiyans, what is Super Sonic based on?--<font color="00FF69">Mystic Monkey is a proud MonoBook Wikian. 04:17, February 2, 2012 (UTC)